Voting in elections, grocery store fires, plain Catholics... and a poll!

[Ken]

Okay, I wasn't gonna go this far, but here goes....

When I was a young 17 y/o convert to conservative Anabaptism, there were two things that confused me to no end:

1- Voting and politics in general. My wife's relatives could spend an entire Sunday afternoon trash talking our elected officials and how evil they were, but they refused to do anything about it. Keep in mind this was over the era of the Clinton & Lewinski thing. And these were Charity-type people.

2- Attitude towards the military (and sometimes police). Again, how bad the services were and how we need to teach nonresistance and not own certain weapons and such like. But they were so hurtful towards each other, back stabbers, starting hurtful rumors "for fun" and so on. Nonresistance doesn't start and stop on a battlefield.

Maybe this needs to be a thread of its own, or maybe I should just keep quiet, but there it is.

People can label such people that act that way as conservative but I would never view them as biblically conservative. And I can’t relate to them as Anabaptist - as my mind goes to origins - 1500 Anabaptist’s I don’t imagine were like the folk you speak of.
I have seen what you talk of in intermediate and less conservative settings but never in more conservative groups. As a seeker after one Sunday afternoon like that I was on to a more conservative group and never went back.

I think it has gotten extraordinarily worse in recent years.

When I was a kid we would spend summers visiting family and the family farm in PA and I can distinctly remember my dad and my grandfather (his father-in-law) having long political discussions. This was the early 70s so the era of Watergate, the Vietnam War, Nixon, Billy Graham, anti-communism, Civil Rights, etc. There were plenty of divisive things to talk about between a more liberal young adult from the west coast and an older conservative Republican from the east. And yet everyone got along and we quickly moved on to the homemade ice cream or whatever.

Today it just feels a lot different. Members of my family on opposite sides of the political fence can hardly talk to each other anymore and certainly not about politics. And both sides see the other as not just wrong, but evil, hateful, etc. What was once a friendly disagreement along the lines of Phillies vs. Giants. Or Ford vs. Chevy. Has become a wedge that has completely broken families and churches apart.

And honestly, I don't think the political issues are more divisive today than in the past. In fact, probably less so. It is just the intensity level that has gone through the roof. Probably due to cable TV and social media and everyone's individual "bespoke reality" today that didn't exist in decades past when we all had more of a shared common reality.

[NedFlanders]

Okay, I wasn't gonna go this far, but here goes....

When I was a young 17 y/o convert to conservative Anabaptism, there were two things that confused me to no end:

1- Voting and politics in general. My wife's relatives could spend an entire Sunday afternoon trash talking our elected officials and how evil they were, but they refused to do anything about it. Keep in mind this was over the era of the Clinton & Lewinski thing. And these were Charity-type people.

2- Attitude towards the military (and sometimes police). Again, how bad the services were and how we need to teach nonresistance and not own certain weapons and such like. But they were so hurtful towards each other, back stabbers, starting hurtful rumors "for fun" and so on. Nonresistance doesn't start and stop on a battlefield.

Maybe this needs to be a thread of its own, or maybe I should just keep quiet, but there it is.

People can label such people that act that way as conservative but I would never view them as biblically conservative. And I can’t relate to them as Anabaptist - as my mind goes to origins - 1500 Anabaptist’s I don’t imagine were like the folk you speak of.
I have seen what you talk of in intermediate and less conservative settings but never in more conservative groups. As a seeker after one Sunday afternoon like that I was on to a more conservative group and never went back.

I think it has gotten extraordinarily worse in recent years.

When I was a kid we would spend summers visiting family and the family farm in PA and I can distinctly remember my dad and my grandfather (his father-in-law) having long political discussions. This was the early 70s so the era of Watergate, the Vietnam War, Nixon, Billy Graham, anti-communism, Civil Rights, etc. There were plenty of divisive things to talk about between a more liberal young adult from the west coast and an older conservative Republican from the east. And yet everyone got along and we quickly moved on to the homemade ice cream or whatever.

Today it just feels a lot different. Members of my family on opposite sides of the political fence can hardly talk to each other anymore and certainly not about politics. And both sides see the other as not just wrong, but evil, hateful, etc. What was once a friendly disagreement along the lines of Phillies vs. Giants. Or Ford vs. Chevy. Has become a wedge that has completely broken families and churches apart.

And honestly, I don't think the political issues are more divisive today than in the past. In fact, probably less so. It is just the intensity level that has gone through the roof. Probably due to cable TV and social media and everyone's individual "bespoke reality" today that didn't exist in decades past when we all had more of a shared common reality.

As the influence of the save me gospel spreads and the vision of the Kingdom of God gospel that Jesus preached gets ignored or people are willfully blinded to it the more we can expect your experience to grow…

[Ken]

People can label such people that act that way as conservative but I would never view them as biblically conservative. And I can’t relate to them as Anabaptist - as my mind goes to origins - 1500 Anabaptist’s I don’t imagine were like the folk you speak of.
I have seen what you talk of in intermediate and less conservative settings but never in more conservative groups. As a seeker after one Sunday afternoon like that I was on to a more conservative group and never went back.

I think it has gotten extraordinarily worse in recent years.

When I was a kid we would spend summers visiting family and the family farm in PA and I can distinctly remember my dad and my grandfather (his father-in-law) having long political discussions. This was the early 70s so the era of Watergate, the Vietnam War, Nixon, Billy Graham, anti-communism, Civil Rights, etc. There were plenty of divisive things to talk about between a more liberal young adult from the west coast and an older conservative Republican from the east. And yet everyone got along and we quickly moved on to the homemade ice cream or whatever.

Today it just feels a lot different. Members of my family on opposite sides of the political fence can hardly talk to each other anymore and certainly not about politics. And both sides see the other as not just wrong, but evil, hateful, etc. What was once a friendly disagreement along the lines of Phillies vs. Giants. Or Ford vs. Chevy. Has become a wedge that has completely broken families and churches apart.

And honestly, I don't think the political issues are more divisive today than in the past. In fact, probably less so. It is just the intensity level that has gone through the roof. Probably due to cable TV and social media and everyone's individual "bespoke reality" today that didn't exist in decades past when we all had more of a shared common reality.

As the influence of the save me gospel spreads and the vision of the Kingdom of God gospel that Jesus preached gets ignored or people are willfully blinded to it the more we can expect your experience to grow…

To add to what Steve wrote. He was actually describing people who DON'T vote. Yet who were still highly politicized by the environment in which they lived. Back then it was the Clinton Impeachment and Monica Lewinski. I think that is increasingly becoming the case. Even people who don't vote or participate in politics are still becoming highly politicized because of the environment in which we now live.

[MattY]

as it should be

Ketchup belongs on fries, but I've taken a liking to some sauce that has a little nip to it for fries.

Unfortunately, the rumors that parts of Western Europe eat mayonnaise with their french fries is true.

Mayonnaise is the best thing to have with fries. Either that or just the salty taste of plain fries. I rarely have fries with ketchup.