Seekers and troubled homes

[Ernie]

About half of seeker disaster stories I know of - there is literally nothing they could have done to fix things (other than to ignore or go along with blatant open sin).

This is part of the challenge. If less conservative groups let more things go a seeker can fit in easier but they look around with disillusionment. What they appreciate is unknowingly their undoing…

They go to a more conservative church where more things are dealt with but have a harder time “fitting in.” The church isn’t about me and so this process can have an humbling effect if we let it.

For those of you who did not grow up Anabaptist...

A seeker family joins an Anabaptist church. The husband is not very conscientious and does not help his wife very much in taking care of the children. She struggles with health issues and he supposedly does not acknowledge her need for sleep and has expectations of her that keeps her from getting a good night's sleep. At one point she appears to have post-partum depression, and during this time, she accuses him of many things and takes her children to a women's shelter, for temporary reprieve. He denies much of what she is accusing him of. Many in the church think she needs disciplined for this and told to move back home. Some in the church think she is in a bad state and needs somebody to counsel them and walk along side of them to find out what is true and what is false and then seek to bring healing to the marriage. Meanwhile the husband gets an attorney involved and she puts a restraining order on him. Both get counseling from some individuals in the church, and neither are part of communion during this time. Eventually they fall in love again and she drops the restraining order and moves back in with him. Unfortunately, he has been becoming an agnostic and he helps her become agnostic also, and they leave the church.

The question for you is,

During this time of trying to work with the situation, some are saying she is definitely sinning. Others say, "We need to make sure we understand all that is going on in the relationship and which of her charges are true and which ones are false, before we accuse her of sinning."

Which response do you lean towards... the one to quickly say she is sinning and must repent, or the response of trying to learn a lot more about the situation before coming to a conclusion...

[Josh]

At one point she appears to have post-partum depression, and during this time, she accuses him of many things and takes her children to a women's shelter, for temporary reprieve.

Making false accusations is a serious thing a Christian can’t do and is indeed a sin.

I don’t think having “post partum depression” is an excuse either. Go to a psychiatrist and get help if that’s the case. There are special programs and facilities in Holmes/Wayne Co for women suffering from PPD.

The husband is not very conscientious and does not help his wife very much in taking care of the children. She struggles with health issues and he supposedly does not acknowledge her need for sleep and has expectations of her that keeps her from getting a good night's sleep.

Ok… when you have small children or a baby, I think expecting a good night’s sleep is just off the table. If terribly sleep deprived mom can try to take naps during the day.

Some men have occupations where they cannot be sleep deprived (trucking is the best example of this). Either the church needs to teach against such occupations or else the wife will need to accept that she’s going to have to deal with children waking up at night until they are sleep trained adequately. The latter can take a while with some children.

My bigger question is why the husband became an agnostic. That would seem to point to a bigger sin area in his life.

Overall, it sounds like both of these people decided to destroy their lives for sinful reasons and did not choose to live lives dedicated to serving Christ first before all else.

[NedFlanders]

About half of seeker disaster stories I know of - there is literally nothing they could have done to fix things (other than to ignore or go along with blatant open sin).

This is part of the challenge. If less conservative groups let more things go a seeker can fit in easier but they look around with disillusionment. What they appreciate is unknowingly their undoing…

They go to a more conservative church where more things are dealt with but have a harder time “fitting in.” The church isn’t about me and so this process can have an humbling effect if we let it.

For those of you who did not grow up Anabaptist...

A seeker family joins an Anabaptist church. The husband is not very conscientious and does not help his wife very much in taking care of the children. She struggles with health issues and he supposedly does not acknowledge her need for sleep and has expectations of her that keeps her from getting a good night's sleep. At one point she appears to have post-partum depression, and during this time, she accuses him of many things and takes her children to a women's shelter, for temporary reprieve. He denies much of what she is accusing him of. Many in the church think she needs disciplined for this and told to move back home. Some in the church think she is in a bad state and needs somebody to counsel them and walk along side of them to find out what is true and what is false and then seek to bring healing to the marriage. Meanwhile the husband gets an attorney involved and she puts a restraining order on him. Both get counseling from some individuals in the church, and neither are part of communion during this time. Eventually they fall in love again and she drops the restraining order and moves back in with him. Unfortunately, he has been becoming an agnostic and he helps her become agnostic also, and they leave the church.

The question for you is,

During this time of trying to work with the situation, some are saying she is definitely sinning. Others say, "We need to make sure we understand all that is going on in the relationship and which of her charges are true and which ones are false, before we accuse her of sinning."

Which response do you lean towards... the one to quickly say she is sinning and must repent, or the response of trying to learn a lot more about the situation before coming to a conclusion...

It looks like the husband wasn’t settled in the fact that as leader in his home that means in Christ we get to serve the most. I think not being as conscientious of our wife is a common trait in seekers unfortunately.

But also I’ve noticed many seeker woman struggle letting go of raising “their” children and bring added stress on themselves. Granted the children might not behave as well as the Mennonite raised children and she is trying to make sure her children are not causing any disruptions.

So the seeker man is often doing less than he could to support while the seeker woman has over stressed mostly herself.

Trying to figure out too much might not accomplish as much as finding ways we can to be supportive. As men we might try to position ourselves in a way that when we are conversing with the man who isn’t so conscientious so that children are near and don’t give him our full attention when talking but make an effort to watch the children in a way so his world doesn’t shrink into a small focus forgetting his responsibilities. He might be so excited to talk about Christ that he doesn’t even flinch at the cries his children make…

Maybe we invite the man to bring his children to do something with the other men and children leaving a time of rest for the wife, thus encouraging him to have more input into his children’s lives where he is the only one in responsible for them (some mothers however may stress more over this as they don’t want the family separated at any time).

The woman in the church can make meals, have a listening ear(without encouraging her obvious negative thoughts towards her husband whether true or not) and etc. for the woman.
Some woman stress heavily over people coming over as they think all has to be perfect for company. They may or may not stress over expected and/or unexpected guests. They may also stress heavily over packing up when asked to come over. Regardless of what you try to juggle with the woman and even mood swings having more contact with her that helps clean house, do laundry, or etc. can be a blessing. My observation is that often people push others away when they feel vulnerable and church closeness that the seeker desires is also subconsciously very scary - she will fight her emotions in this and can be confused - so don’t give up if one day she seems cold - next week she may be longing for you to try like you did the last time she was cold. Obviously this needs to be tempered by the Spirit’s leading and each individual situation.

My take is that both the husband and wife were likely missing the mark in some way. Both needed a change of mind. Discipline may have been necessary for either or both - I may lean more toward the woman acted more wrongly - However he may take better to discipline than her feeling more rejection. We need a greater input into each others lives in seeking wherever we can to build each up. When we have so much and yet still repentance or change of mind is not happening and it has been explained that they understand - then discipline may be warranted. But not by jumping to it. Picking sides will not help anything but seeking what is true.
Sad that the story has gone as it did.

[steve-in-kville]

I’ve noticed the same thing - it seems essentially at random whether a specific church makes newcomers feel accepted.

I think it is possible to attend a good church for the wrong reasons. I really think that is where seekers trip themselves up.

[ohio jones]

Which response do you lean towards... the one to quickly say she is sinning and must repent, or the response of trying to learn a lot more about the situation before coming to a conclusion...

I'd say we should be swift to hear, slow to speak, and slow to become angry (or to cause anger by making accusations).

[Ernie]

I don’t think having “post partum depression” is an excuse either. Go to a psychiatrist and get help if that’s the case.

She did that.

Ok… when you have small children or a baby, I think expecting a good night’s sleep is just off the table. If terribly sleep deprived mom can try to take naps during the day.

Some men have occupations where they cannot be sleep deprived (trucking is the best example of this). Either the church needs to teach against such occupations or else the wife will need to accept that she’s going to have to deal with children waking up at night until they are sleep trained adequately. The latter can take a while with some children.

A lot of assumptions are being made here... I don't want to explain the situation further...

My bigger question is why the husband became an agnostic. That would seem to point to a bigger sin area in his life.
Overall, it sounds like both of these people decided to destroy their lives for sinful reasons and did not choose to live lives dedicated to serving Christ first before all else.

Again... A lot of assumptions are being made here...

[Verity]

For those of you who did not grow up Anabaptist...

A seeker family joins an Anabaptist church. The husband is not very conscientious and does not help his wife very much in taking care of the children. She struggles with health issues and he supposedly does not acknowledge her need for sleep and has expectations of her that keeps her from getting a good night's sleep.

From what you are saying, he revealed his issues early on. Women can and do crumble under that kind of stress, even if there are no other forms of marital stress. Further, most abusers deny that anything is amiss. It continually boggles my mind how many in plain circles totally deny very obvious signs of abuse/neglect/disorder. I used to think it was ignorance, but have had to discard that thinking in most cases.

Telling a woman who finally has the courage to get help that she is sinning is adding insult to injury. Please, if a woman or child steps up and says there is a problem, take it seriously. Will 100% of what they say be accurate? Probably not, no more than 100% of what any of us would say while upset is accurate. I saw a statistic online recently that 1% of claims in conservative circles prove to be false. Curious, I ran it past several others, all licensed counselors or psychologists. They agreed with this number. If someone makes that initial move for help (esp something drastic like running away or going to a shelter) there is a very solid underlying reason 99% of the time.

A lot of these struggles could be avoided by simply getting the individual into professional help and following their directives. When the whole congregation gets involved, it is always messy. The church should not be the one to determine "who" is right or wrong. Someone who is not involved emotionally and is trained to spot red flags will be able to give sound advice, even if they are not a Christian. We've watched too many (conservative) marriages go to shambles due to churches where leaders refused to follow any of the doctors' advice.

[steve-in-kville]

A lot of these struggles could be avoided by simply getting the individual into professional help and following their directives. When the whole congregation gets involved, it is always messy. The church should not be the one to determine "who" is right or wrong. Someone who is not involved emotionally and is trained to spot red flags will be able to give sound advice, even if they are not a Christian. We've watched too many (conservative) marriages go to shambles due to churches where leaders refused to follow any of the doctors' advice.

Many times, pastors make for poor counselors. They may mean well, but they're not good at it.

[silentreader]

About half of seeker disaster stories I know of - there is literally nothing they could have done to fix things (other than to ignore or go along with blatant open sin).

This is part of the challenge. If less conservative groups let more things go a seeker can fit in easier but they look around with disillusionment. What they appreciate is unknowingly their undoing…

They go to a more conservative church where more things are dealt with but have a harder time “fitting in.” The church isn’t about me and so this process can have an humbling effect if we let it.

For those of you who did not grow up Anabaptist...

A seeker family joins an Anabaptist church.

The husband is not very conscientious and does not help his wife very much in taking care of the children.

The above suggests that the husband could help but doesn't. If this is the case then the husband needs to step up to the plate.


She struggles with health issues and he supposedly does not acknowledge her need for sleep and has expectations of her that keeps her from getting a good night's sleep. At one point she appears to have post-partum depression, and during this time, she accuses him of many things and takes her children to a women's shelter, for temporary reprieve. He denies much of what she is accusing him of. Many in the church think she needs disciplined for this and told to move back home. Some in the church think she is in a bad state and needs somebody to counsel them and walk along side of them to find out what is true and what is false and then seek to bring healing to the marriage. Meanwhile the husband gets an attorney involved and she puts a restraining order on him. Both get counseling from some individuals in the church, and neither are part of communion during this time. Eventually they fall in love again and she drops the restraining order and moves back in with him. Unfortunately, he has been becoming an agnostic and he helps her become agnostic also, and they leave the church.

The question for you is,

During this time of trying to work with the situation, some are saying she is definitely sinning. Others say, "We need to make sure we understand all that is going on in the relationship and which of her charges are true and which ones are false, before we accuse her of sinning."

Which response do you lean towards... the one to quickly say she is sinning and must repent, or the response of trying to learn a lot more about the situation before coming to a conclusion...

[Verity]

I don’t think having “post partum depression” is an excuse either. Go to a psychiatrist and get help if that’s the case.

She did that.

Ok… when you have small children or a baby, I think expecting a good night’s sleep is just off the table. If terribly sleep deprived mom can try to take naps during the day.

Some men have occupations where they cannot be sleep deprived (trucking is the best example of this). Either the church needs to teach against such occupations or else the wife will need to accept that she’s going to have to deal with children waking up at night until they are sleep trained adequately. The latter can take a while with some children.

A lot of assumptions are being made here... I don't want to explain the situation further...

My bigger question is why the husband became an agnostic. That would seem to point to a bigger sin area in his life.
Overall, it sounds like both of these people decided to destroy their lives for sinful reasons and did not choose to live lives dedicated to serving Christ first before all else.

Again... A lot of assumptions are being made here...

Assumptions are dangerous and cause a lot of harm. Life isn't simple. "Jesus had all the answers... and He wept."