Mennonite Outward Appearance Requirements For Men

[Elmer]

While distinctive apparel & modesty are different topics, I find this article on male modesty interesting.

https://www.earlychristianlife.com/2015 ... y.html?m=1

[Elmer]

Here is a position paper adopted by South Atlantic Mennonite Conference October 21, 2006.

"Modesty and Identity of Men’s Shirts
Both too much and too little can be made of clothing. We make too much of it when clothing is our passion, an expression of our vanity, and a means to call attention to ourselves and put our body on display. But we make too little of clothing when we overlook its symbolic meaning, when we disregard what is generally seen as appropriate in a given setting, and when we ignore the associations and identity by which clothing may mark us.
Earnest Christians want their clothing and personal appearance to speak of their relationship with God and their desire to be conformed to the image of Jesus Christ. They take measures to conduct and clothe themselves with modesty. They refrain from calling undue attention to their bodies or provoking impure thoughts in others. They want to be identified as children of the holy and righteous God, not with the heroes of popular culture, the celebrities of entertainment and fashion, or the craze of collegiate and professional sports.
One article of clothing where immodesty and wrong identity often merge is the pullover tee shirt. Short sleeves, tight fit and inappropriate messages and logos make many tee shirts inconsistent with the values we hold as a church, and are unacceptable clothing for work wear or other occasions.
A loose fitting pullover shirt with adequate sleeve length may be acceptable attire where such clothing is appropriate, such as work and relaxation. But we must take care not to compromise ourselves, betray our commitment to the brotherhood, or bring displeasure to our Father by apparel which is immodest or identifies us with the world. While there is no prescribed pattern for general men's wear, brethren must give careful thought that the clothing they select is consistent with Biblical principles and the standards required of the sisters."

[steve-in-kville]

Here is a position paper adopted by South Atlantic Mennonite Conference October 21, 2006.

"Modesty and Identity of Men’s Shirts
Both too much and too little can be made of clothing. We make too much of it when clothing is our passion, an expression of our vanity, and a means to call attention to ourselves and put our body on display. But we make too little of clothing when we overlook its symbolic meaning, when we disregard what is generally seen as appropriate in a given setting, and when we ignore the associations and identity by which clothing may mark us.
Earnest Christians want their clothing and personal appearance to speak of their relationship with God and their desire to be conformed to the image of Jesus Christ. They take measures to conduct and clothe themselves with modesty. They refrain from calling undue attention to their bodies or provoking impure thoughts in others. They want to be identified as children of the holy and righteous God, not with the heroes of popular culture, the celebrities of entertainment and fashion, or the craze of collegiate and professional sports.
One article of clothing where immodesty and wrong identity often merge is the pullover tee shirt. Short sleeves, tight fit and inappropriate messages and logos make many tee shirts inconsistent with the values we hold as a church, and are unacceptable clothing for work wear or other occasions.
A loose fitting pullover shirt with adequate sleeve length may be acceptable attire where such clothing is appropriate, such as work and relaxation. But we must take care not to compromise ourselves, betray our commitment to the brotherhood, or bring displeasure to our Father by apparel which is immodest or identifies us with the world. While there is no prescribed pattern for general men's wear, brethren must give careful thought that the clothing they select is consistent with Biblical principles and the standards required of the sisters."

That's too "wordy" for me. And I have no idea upon reading that whether "pull over shirts" are legal or not.

[Heirbyadoption]

Now that this thread is sufficiently off topic, I will offer a theory about the clothing and appearance of Anabaptist men and how distinct they do or do not appear.

I'm not sure the clothing and appearance practice of Anabaptists was ever designed around the concept of looking distinct. Much was set when the general fashion of the day was not that different, then it froze while society changed. I suspect it was more geared towards addressing specific trends or conditions as they arose instead of being organized around principle. The rules governing men were not as focused on clothing, rather things like occupation, what type of work is acceptable, what type of professional organizations are acceptable to join and so on.

In general, I agree. The straight cut suit coat for men in the early 1900's was one exception.

I can't find the primary source quote, but I think it was already in the 1500's that some Anabaptists were known for wearing brown hats, because they continued with their older practice, and didn't see a need to keep up with the Jones's.

There are also a couple references to the "Mennisten kittel" from the late 1500s or early 1600s; I could probably find sources if needed (possibly Verduin or Gingerich). And it's been mentioned on here before, but Gingerich's book "Mennonite Attire Through Four Centuries" does offer some pretty solid documentation on the evolution toward identifying Plain dress among Anabaptists, as does Esther Rupel's "Brethren Dress".

[Ken]

Here is a position paper adopted by South Atlantic Mennonite Conference October 21, 2006.

"Modesty and Identity of Men’s Shirts
Both too much and too little can be made of clothing. We make too much of it when clothing is our passion, an expression of our vanity, and a means to call attention to ourselves and put our body on display. But we make too little of clothing when we overlook its symbolic meaning, when we disregard what is generally seen as appropriate in a given setting, and when we ignore the associations and identity by which clothing may mark us.
Earnest Christians want their clothing and personal appearance to speak of their relationship with God and their desire to be conformed to the image of Jesus Christ. They take measures to conduct and clothe themselves with modesty. They refrain from calling undue attention to their bodies or provoking impure thoughts in others. They want to be identified as children of the holy and righteous God, not with the heroes of popular culture, the celebrities of entertainment and fashion, or the craze of collegiate and professional sports.
One article of clothing where immodesty and wrong identity often merge is the pullover tee shirt. Short sleeves, tight fit and inappropriate messages and logos make many tee shirts inconsistent with the values we hold as a church, and are unacceptable clothing for work wear or other occasions.
A loose fitting pullover shirt with adequate sleeve length may be acceptable attire where such clothing is appropriate, such as work and relaxation. But we must take care not to compromise ourselves, betray our commitment to the brotherhood, or bring displeasure to our Father by apparel which is immodest or identifies us with the world. While there is no prescribed pattern for general men's wear, brethren must give careful thought that the clothing they select is consistent with Biblical principles and the standards required of the sisters."

That's too "wordy" for me. And I have no idea upon reading that whether "pull over shirts" are legal or not.

Tight t-shirts with inappropriate logos are always inappropriate.
Loose t-shirts are OK in casual settings but not church

That is as much of gist as I could get. There are apparently no rules about any other sort of shirt.

Of course tight and loose are in the eyes of a beholder. I have a Menno cousin with such a gut that any shirt is going to be skin tight around the torso no matter how big. But I suspect those tight shirts on him aren't provoking many impure thoughts in others so he is probably OK.

[Josh]

I have a Menno cousin with such a gut that any shirt is going to be skin tight around the torso no matter how big. But I suspect those tight shirts on him aren't provoking many impure thoughts in others so he is probably OK.

I would argue that the body still needs to be covered appropriately. Perhaps he could find some loose fitting shirts.

[Ken]

I have a Menno cousin with such a gut that any shirt is going to be skin tight around the torso no matter how big. But I suspect those tight shirts on him aren't provoking many impure thoughts in others so he is probably OK.

I would argue that the body still needs to be covered appropriately. Perhaps he could find some loose fitting shirts.

I'm just making the point that "tight" is a pretty ambiguous standard.

[Ernie]

We have found that text is only so helpful in communicating what it that a church wants. A step better is to picture (verbally or in pictures) what it is that you want to aim for and what it is that you want to avoid. This can take the discussion out of the debates and into a conversation about whether a person really wants to head the way the church does or whether they want to head a different direction. I prefer a discussion about direction any day over a discussion about whether someone crossed an ambiguous line in the sand.

[Sudsy]

Here is a position paper adopted by South Atlantic Mennonite Conference October 21, 2006.

"Modesty and Identity of Men’s Shirts
Both too much and too little can be made of clothing. We make too much of it when clothing is our passion, an expression of our vanity, and a means to call attention to ourselves and put our body on display. But we make too little of clothing when we overlook its symbolic meaning, when we disregard what is generally seen as appropriate in a given setting, and when we ignore the associations and identity by which clothing may mark us.
Earnest Christians want their clothing and personal appearance to speak of their relationship with God and their desire to be conformed to the image of Jesus Christ. They take measures to conduct and clothe themselves with modesty. They refrain from calling undue attention to their bodies or provoking impure thoughts in others. They want to be identified as children of the holy and righteous God, not with the heroes of popular culture, the celebrities of entertainment and fashion, or the craze of collegiate and professional sports.
One article of clothing where immodesty and wrong identity often merge is the pullover tee shirt. Short sleeves, tight fit and inappropriate messages and logos make many tee shirts inconsistent with the values we hold as a church, and are unacceptable clothing for work wear or other occasions.
A loose fitting pullover shirt with adequate sleeve length may be acceptable attire where such clothing is appropriate, such as work and relaxation. But we must take care not to compromise ourselves, betray our commitment to the brotherhood, or bring displeasure to our Father by apparel which is immodest or identifies us with the world. While there is no prescribed pattern for general men's wear, brethren must give careful thought that the clothing they select is consistent with Biblical principles and the standards required of the sisters."

Thanks Elmer for your thoughts and links. I have some concern with adding to scripture and imo, when it gets into clothing, imo, some have gone way beyond expanding on what it requires to dress modestly. And additionally making these add-ons a requirement of fellowship in their local church. Here is my position paper fwiw -

Personally, I don't believe in church dress standards. I don't see anywhere in scripture of enforcement being used to cause all those belonging to a local church to conform to a list of specific dress requirements. What I do read in the NT is that we have been given the Holy Spirit to lead us in the way that we should go and aside from the word 'modest', imo, there is a lot of adding to the scriptures which we are told not to do.

How many people do we know in our churches that have said that they came out of the world and became Christians because they were attracted to everyone in the church living by the same set of dress standards ? I do believe our lives are to attract others to become Christ followers but NT scriptures primarily says this is through good deeds and sharing the Gospel story. I don't read of anyone in the book of Acts being attracted to the Saviour by any special dress of Jesus followers.

When the NT speaks about clothes - Col. 3:12 - 'Therefore, as God's chosen people, holy and dearly loved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience.' I believe, those are the areas that God wants us to focus on as representing 'God's chosen people'.

Being modest then, to my understanding, is to not allow our clothes to be the attraction whether worldly or not worldly so that what that verse speaks about is how we should be clothed in the eyes of others. We have no indication that Jesus and His disciples ever wore clothing that was different from what the common man wore in that day. I believe if Jesus was here today, his outward apparel would not be anything that would standout from most sinners but would still be of a modest nature.

I am most familiar with the local Mennonite Brethren group of Anabaptists and although clothing is not an issue, it is also suspect that some clothing worn by MB Christians, may not qualify as modest in God's sight. Regarding being modest I believe is a work of the Holy Spirit in one's life as we follow His leadings and each of us is at different stages of being guided and obeying the Holy Spirit. I realize my views and convictions are more of an individual nature that bucks the group sanctification approach by some others.

So anyway within the Anabaptist umbrella, so to speak, there are those individuals and churches that don't put much attention on dress and for some it is considered more of a hindrance to reaching the world than it is a means of living sanctified.