Joining a church vs Actually obeying the rules

[Ken]

Now I would really be curious how the parents here of 14 year-olds would respond to a 14 year-old who says: "You know, I don't particularly agree with this one specific tenant of church teaching so I'm going to stop attending."

Most parents would probably have rent their garments in response to that.

Or at leased torn their hair.

But hey, at least it is the HONEST response and Josh and others here are big on honesty as the top virtue when it comes to church membership.

If you are 14 years old and you disagree with a specific tenant of the church can you still honestly attend? or are you being a hypocrite if you are only attending because your parents make you? And are your parents encouraging dishonesty (and leading you to sin) if they make you attend when you aren't in complete agreement with the teachings?

[Josh]

But hey, at least it is the HONEST response and Josh and others here are big on honesty as the top virtue when it comes to church membership.

If you are 14 years old and you disagree with a specific tenant of the church can you still honestly attend? or are you being a hypocrite if you are only attending because your parents make you? And are your parents encouraging dishonesty (and leading you to sin) if they make you attend when you aren't in complete agreement with the teachings?

I doubt most people in my church are in agreement with 100% of its teachings. Some would be 99%, and some a bit less. Generally speaking, being part of a congregation means you try to set those differences aside and find unity anyway.

Plain culture and conservative Mennonite culture is not a place where a great deal of importance is placed on 14 year olds as individuals getting to go and act out whatever their own opinions are on things. Instead, they are expected to conform to what is believed to be the truth. If they don't like that, they can become adults and go and do their own thing.

It is not encouraging dishonest nor sinful to attend a church (especially when one is a 14 year old) where one isn't in complete agreement with anything. Frankly I don't really see how that kind of cult like environment would be formed anyway where everyone thinks and believes identical things.

What is valued is setting aside the peculiar things one believes and finding unity with other believers instead.

[ken_sylvania]

Most parents would probably have rent their garments in response to that.

Or at leased torn their hair.

But hey, at least it is the HONEST response and Josh and others here are big on honesty as the top virtue when it comes to church membership.

If you are 14 years old and you disagree with a specific tenant of the church can you still honestly attend? or are you being a hypocrite if you are only attending because your parents make you? And are your parents encouraging dishonesty (and leading you to sin) if they make you attend when you aren't in complete agreement with the teachings?

Why would it be dishonest to attend a church where you disagree with one or more specific people who live there?

Or, more to the point, why would you consider it hypocrisy for anyone to attend church just because they are forced to do so? Seems like a rather absurd theory to me.

[ohio jones]

Most parents would probably have rent their garments in response to that.

Or at leased torn their hair.

But hey, at least it is the HONEST response and Josh and others here are big on honesty as the top virtue when it comes to church membership.

If you are 14 years old and you disagree with a specific tenant of the church can you still honestly attend? or are you being a hypocrite if you are only attending because your parents make you? And are your parents encouraging dishonesty (and leading you to sin) if they make you attend when you aren't in complete agreement with the teachings?

Is the 14 year old a baptized member of the church? If so, why did they join a church they have such serious disagreement with? If not, maybe they should just wait a few years and move out of their parents' house to a place where their landlord doesn't care what church they go to.

[eccentric_rambler]

The problem does not seem to be the child's landlord, but that the church is a landlord and has one or more tenants.

[Ernie]

Now I would really be curious how the parents here of 14 year-olds would respond to a 14 year-old who says: "You know, I don't particularly agree with this one specific tenant of church teaching so I'm going to stop attending."

Most parents would probably have rent their garments in response to that.

Or at leased torn their hair.

If you are 14 years old and you disagree with a specific tenant of the church can you still honestly attend? or are you being a hypocrite if you are only attending because your parents make you? And are your parents encouraging dishonesty (and leading you to sin) if they make you attend when you aren't in complete agreement with the teachings?

Is the 14 year old a baptized member of the church? If so, why did they join a church they have such serious disagreement with? If not, maybe they should just wait a few years and move out of their parents' house to a place where their landlord doesn't care what church they go to.

The problem does not seem to be the child's landlord, but that the church is a landlord and has one or more tenants.

This is a keeper! We laughed so hard at our house... I could hardly read it out loud.

[Ernie]

But hey, at least it is the HONEST response and Josh and others here are big on honesty as the top virtue when it comes to church membership.

If you are 14 years old and you disagree with a specific tenant of the church can you still honestly attend? or are you being a hypocrite if you are only attending because your parents make you? And are your parents encouraging dishonesty (and leading you to sin) if they make you attend when you aren't in complete agreement with the teachings?

I doubt most people in my church are in agreement with 100% of its teachings. Some would be 99%, and some a bit less. Generally speaking, being part of a congregation means you try to set those differences aside and find unity anyway.

Plain culture and conservative Mennonite culture is not a place where a great deal of importance is placed on 14 year olds as individuals getting to go and act out whatever their own opinions are on things. Instead, they are expected to conform to what is believed to be the truth. If they don't like that, they can become adults and go and do their own thing.

It is not encouraging dishonest nor sinful to attend a church (especially when one is a 14 year old) where one isn't in complete agreement with anything. Frankly I don't really see how that kind of cult like environment would be formed anyway where everyone thinks and believes identical things.

What is valued is setting aside the peculiar things one believes and finding unity with other believers instead.

If someone's worldview is a reaction to submitting to a body of believers, what Josh says won't make any sense.

Recently one of my nieces got baptized and when she shared ahead of her baptism why it took her so long to get baptized (she was about 17 and wanted to be submersed rather than use the pouring method) she said, "I didn't think I wanted to join this church due to this issue, but I got past that, and I love you all and I am looking forward to being part of this church." That is the spirit Plain Anabaptists are looking for and it is not hypocritical to do something you'd rather not do. We can state our objections but still choose to love.

I wouldn't be surprised if some day she decides to get submersed, but for now she is making the best of a church that she would not have picked. And her parents would have allowed her to join a different church if she had wanted to.

[Josh]

The problem does not seem to be the child's landlord, but that the church is a landlord and has one or more tenants.

Via bequests, our church and school have some tenants, although it turns out they haven't been paying rent in quite some time. At this point nobody is even sure what the proper rent should be. (Agricultural land typically rents somewhere between $50 and $200 per acre per year.)

[Ernie]

Via bequests, our church and school have some tenants,

??? I didn't get this...

[Josh]

Via bequests, our church and school have some tenants,

??? I didn't get this...

A gentleman decided to leave his land to the school, and a school was built on it. It has more acres than are needed, and some of the land could be prone to soil erosion, so it is rented to a farmer who grows hay or corn/beans on it and keeps the soil and hillside in good condition.

Another man who had no children or wife left his entire estate to the church, but with two men he selected as trustees. He had quite a bit of acreage and always rented some of it out to a farmer, and that arrangement continues to this day.

So far, none of our 14 year olds have raised an issue with either of these tenants.