Rosary Beads?

Christian ethics and theology with an Anabaptist perspective
Judas Maccabeus
Posts: 4030
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 11:13 am
Location: Maryland
Affiliation: Con. Menno.

Re: Rosary Beads?

Post by Judas Maccabeus »

ohio jones wrote: Thu Feb 08, 2024 1:41 pm
MaxPC wrote: Thu Feb 08, 2024 10:34 am Follow Jesus' example.
Who did Jesus pray to, and who did he teach his followers to pray to?
“ This, then, is how you should pray:

“‘Our Father in heaven,
hallowed be your name,”
1 x
:hug:
ken_sylvania
Posts: 4093
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 12:46 pm
Affiliation: CM

Re: Rosary Beads?

Post by ken_sylvania »

ohio jones wrote: Thu Feb 08, 2024 1:41 pm
MaxPC wrote: Thu Feb 08, 2024 10:34 am Follow Jesus' example.
Who did Jesus pray to, and who did he teach his followers to pray to?
His Father, not his mother.
1 x
User avatar
Bootstrap
Posts: 14597
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2016 9:59 am
Affiliation: Mennonite

Re: Rosary Beads?

Post by Bootstrap »

MaxPC wrote: Thu Feb 08, 2024 1:59 pm Enhancing one’s prayer life is the proper goal of any devotion, regardless of one’s culture or denomination.
Sure.

So according to the Bible, who do we pray to? Who do we bow down to? Who is our mediator before God? Who is our Paraclete? What does the Bible tell us about praying to anyone else?

How can I tell if I am praying to God or to someone else? The Vatican website calls the "Hail Mary" a prayer. Who is this prayer addressed to?

https://www.vaticannews.va/en/prayers/t ... -mary.html
Hail, Mary, full of grace,
the Lord is with thee.
Blessed art thou amongst women
and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus.
Holy Mary, Mother of God,
pray for us sinners,
now and at the hour of our death.
Amen.
0 x
Is it biblical? Is it Christlike? Is it loving? Is it true? How can I find out?
User avatar
Bootstrap
Posts: 14597
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2016 9:59 am
Affiliation: Mennonite

Re: Rosary Beads?

Post by Bootstrap »

MaxPC wrote: Thu Feb 08, 2024 1:59 pm If one is not interested, struggles with comprehension of the information, or is simply far too busy, then I recommend prayer, more prayer, and even more prayer.
I agree. To whom should this prayer be addressed?
0 x
Is it biblical? Is it Christlike? Is it loving? Is it true? How can I find out?
ken_sylvania
Posts: 4093
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 12:46 pm
Affiliation: CM

Re: Rosary Beads?

Post by ken_sylvania »

MaxPC wrote: Thu Feb 08, 2024 1:59 pm
ohio jones wrote: Thu Feb 08, 2024 1:41 pm
MaxPC wrote: Thu Feb 08, 2024 10:34 am Follow Jesus' example.
Who did Jesus pray to, and who did he teach his followers to pray to?
In the definitional context that prayer is conversation: Jesus conversed with Moses and Elijah.
I was reminded of this post when I saw some headlines this afternoon about a certain Roman Catholic President who has been claiming to communicate with dead politicians.
1 x
User avatar
Bootstrap
Posts: 14597
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2016 9:59 am
Affiliation: Mennonite

Re: Rosary Beads?

Post by Bootstrap »

MaxPC wrote: Thu Feb 08, 2024 1:59 pm In the definitional context that prayer is conversation: Jesus conversed with Moses and Elijah.
Here's the passage. A few study questions:

1. Did Jesus pray to Moses or Elijah?
2. Did Jesus tell his disciples to pray to Moses or Elijah?
3. Did Jesus tell his disciples to build shrines or shelters for Moses or Elijah?
4. Did God's voice tell the disciples to listen to Moses or Elijah, or to Jesus?
5. If Jesus talked to Moses and Elijah in this scene, does that mean that we should?

Justify your answers ...
The Transfiguration

After six days Jesus took with him Peter, James and John the brother of James, and led them up a high mountain by themselves. There he was transfigured before them. His face shone like the sun, and his clothes became as white as the light. Just then there appeared before them Moses and Elijah, talking with Jesus.

Peter said to Jesus, “Lord, it is good for us to be here. If you wish, I will put up three shelters—one for you, one for Moses and one for Elijah.”

While he was still speaking, a bright cloud covered them, and a voice from the cloud said, “This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased. Listen to him!”

When the disciples heard this, they fell facedown to the ground, terrified. But Jesus came and touched them. “Get up,” he said. “Don’t be afraid.” When they looked up, they saw no one except Jesus.

As they were coming down the mountain, Jesus instructed them, “Don’t tell anyone what you have seen, until the Son of Man has been raised from the dead.”

The disciples asked him, “Why then do the teachers of the law say that Elijah must come first?”

Jesus replied, “To be sure, Elijah comes and will restore all things. But I tell you, Elijah has already come, and they did not recognize him, but have done to him everything they wished. In the same way the Son of Man is going to suffer at their hands.” Then the disciples understood that he was talking to them about John the Baptist.
0 x
Is it biblical? Is it Christlike? Is it loving? Is it true? How can I find out?
Valerie
Posts: 5317
Joined: Fri Dec 23, 2016 6:59 am
Location: Medina OH
Affiliation: non-denominational

Re: Rosary Beads?

Post by Valerie »

Bootstrap wrote: Thu Feb 08, 2024 4:29 pm
MaxPC wrote: Thu Feb 08, 2024 1:59 pm Enhancing one’s prayer life is the proper goal of any devotion, regardless of one’s culture or denomination.
Sure.

So according to the Bible, who do we pray to? Who do we bow down to? Who is our mediator before God? Who is our Paraclete? What does the Bible tell us about praying to anyone else?

How can I tell if I am praying to God or to someone else? The Vatican website calls the "Hail Mary" a prayer. Who is this prayer addressed to?

https://www.vaticannews.va/en/prayers/t ... -mary.html
Hail, Mary, full of grace,
the Lord is with thee.
Blessed art thou amongst women
and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus.
Holy Mary, Mother of God,
pray for us sinners,
now and at the hour of our death.
Amen.
Again you're getting things confused between praying to, and asking intersession. You're getting worship confused with veneration. And you still need to remember everything the Church was taught was not written down.
And you continue to be confused about what Saul did seeking to speak with Samuel with asking intercession from those whose bodies died here but are alive with Christ.
2 Thessalonians 2,:15:

Therefore, brethren, stand fast and hold the traditions which you were taught, whether by word or our epistle.

So the Bible is clear not all instructions or traditions were written down.
Maybe the reason Jesus brought James, Peter & John with Him to speak with Moses & Elijah was for this purpise- Jesus wasn't speaking to His Father here, He was speaking to Moses & Elijah- why did He bring the disciples with Him? Perhaps the early Church knew more about this than those who tried to start the Church all over with "Bible only" but the Church was not started in the beginning with Bible only.

What we do know, is in every country the Apostles took the Gospel & started Churches- they believe in communion with the saints who are alive with Christ- so somehow they were taught this,-

The example JM have is not the same thing either- Jesus point was that if the dead went to the rich man's family to warn them, they still wouldn't believe. This does not apply to what the Church understanding is.

I admit not practicing this however, I do recognize the differences and whether people understand or believe it does not mean it is heretical or sinful,- it seems scriptures and understandings don't apply against it.
I do realize not all will ever really understand some other mysteries of the ancient faith.
0 x
User avatar
ohio jones
Posts: 5305
Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2016 11:23 pm
Location: undisclosed
Affiliation: Rosedale Network

Re: Rosary Beads?

Post by ohio jones »

Valerie wrote: Thu Feb 08, 2024 7:18 pm And you still need to remember everything the Church was taught was not written down.
...
So the Bible is clear not all instructions or traditions were written down.
Surely they've all been written down by now, haven't they? Have they been collected in a book or set of books where one can read and study them? Or are some of the traditions still stubbornly oral?
0 x
I grew up around Indiana, You grew up around Galilee; And if I ever really do grow up, I wanna grow up to be just like You -- Rich Mullins

I am a Christian and my name is Pilgram; I'm on a journey, but I'm not alone -- NewSong, slightly edited
Valerie
Posts: 5317
Joined: Fri Dec 23, 2016 6:59 am
Location: Medina OH
Affiliation: non-denominational

Re: Rosary Beads?

Post by Valerie »

ohio jones wrote: Thu Feb 08, 2024 8:21 pm
Valerie wrote: Thu Feb 08, 2024 7:18 pm And you still need to remember everything the Church was taught was not written down.
...
So the Bible is clear not all instructions or traditions were written down.
Surely they've all been written down by now, haven't they? Have they been collected in a book or set of books where one can read and study them? Or are some of the traditions still stubbornly oral?
I have no idea. I'm not Catholic or Orthodox. They were the Church Jesus and the Apostles started. He did not start the Church with a manuscript, right,? The Church didn't seem to feel it would someday have to prove themselves to Protestants who were starting in the 16th century depending on "Bible only" which we can see what that caused. This isn't meant to be offensive but I am not assuming to know everything that was orally taught when we weren't there. I just find it interesting every church in every country the Apostles started Churches, whether in easy or west understand some things that we do not so if we lack that, it may be we won't know until the other side. I DO know wheny husband thought he may have been dying, somehow without asking for her, he is sure his mother came to his hospital room, he didn't see her but heard her. I don't understand but he did not make it up. I know him. I'm just to the point I refuse to tell them they're wrong as if I ",know".
0 x
Judas Maccabeus
Posts: 4030
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 11:13 am
Location: Maryland
Affiliation: Con. Menno.

Re: Rosary Beads?

Post by Judas Maccabeus »

ohio jones wrote: Thu Feb 08, 2024 8:21 pm
Valerie wrote: Thu Feb 08, 2024 7:18 pm And you still need to remember everything the Church was taught was not written down.
...
So the Bible is clear not all instructions or traditions were written down.
Surely they've all been written down by now, haven't they? Have they been collected in a book or set of books where one can read and study them? Or are some of the traditions still stubbornly oral?
Like any oral tradition, they are subject to corruption. That is why we have WRITTEN scripture to guide us.

We know what Jesus and his immediate disciples taught. As to others, does it really matter?
0 x
:hug:
Post Reply