Rosary Beads?

[Judas Maccabeus]

Indeed. As I have mentioned previously, we are communicating with the living on the other side of the veil. We are not communicating with dead souls.

sorry, this does not answer the question, and attempts to get around the problem by redefining "dead." I would encourage you to try again. I am sure you have better than that.

JM, your question has indeed been answered in a number of ways from different posters here. If you struggle with comprehension of those answers, then my advice is for you to pray for understanding. If no understanding comes to you, then perhaps you are not ready to hear those answers.

At the end of the day, pray to the Lord as you can, not as you cannot. Pray for a stronger relationship with Jesus. Just pray. Follow Jesus' example. God is God of the living souls both in this physical domain and in the afterlife.

Speaking louder simply does not make a weak position any stronger. It in fact, betrays the weakness of that position.

[MaxPC]

sorry, this does not answer the question, and attempts to get around the problem by redefining "dead." I would encourage you to try again. I am sure you have better than that.

JM, your question has indeed been answered in a number of ways from different posters here. If you struggle with comprehension of those answers, then my advice is for you to pray for understanding. If no understanding comes to you, then perhaps you are not ready to hear those answers.

At the end of the day, pray to the Lord as you can, not as you cannot. Pray for a stronger relationship with Jesus. Just pray. Follow Jesus' example. God is God of the living souls both in this physical domain and in the afterlife.

Speaking louder simply does not make a weak position any stronger. It in fact, betrays the weakness of that position.

No one is speaking loudly here, JM. As I stated:
At the end of the day, pray to the Lord as you can, not as you cannot. Pray for a stronger relationship with Jesus. Just pray. Follow Jesus' example. God is God of the living souls both in this physical domain and in the afterlife.

If you do not care for the way others pray, then pass it on by and focus upon your own prayer life traditions. You will find that life is much more peaceful when nonresistance is employed.

[ken_sylvania]

JM, your question has indeed been answered in a number of ways from different posters here. If you struggle with comprehension of those answers, then my advice is for you to pray for understanding. If no understanding comes to you, then perhaps you are not ready to hear those answers.

At the end of the day, pray to the Lord as you can, not as you cannot. Pray for a stronger relationship with Jesus. Just pray. Follow Jesus' example. God is God of the living souls both in this physical domain and in the afterlife.

Speaking louder simply does not make a weak position any stronger. It in fact, betrays the weakness of that position.

No one is speaking loudly here, JM. As I stated:
At the end of the day, pray to the Lord as you can, not as you cannot. Pray for a stronger relationship with Jesus. Just pray. Follow Jesus' example. God is God of the living souls both in this physical domain and in the afterlife.

If you do not care for the way others pray, then pass it on by and focus upon your own prayer life traditions. You will find that life is much more peaceful when nonresistance is employed.

You could put it in all caps as well, as if you are shouting rather than just talking louder.

[RZehr]

Oral tradition was just ancient church standards. Not inspired, just practical agreements to live by. Problem is when they get confused with scripture. Ossified oral teachings have little place in contemporary life.

[Valerie]

Max needs no one to defend him but this topic was not started by him. It was started by an Anabaptist and he has been much more gracious than those almost ganging up. You don't like the answers but it seems to me your accusations are inaccurate. He has made suggestions in your pursuit of understanding but it seems people don't want to understand.

To me he's shown the greatest non"resistance, since being ganged up on is how it comes across-
Maybe don't start threads asking Ancient Church traditions if only to "not let up" with arguments that only keep revealing an unwillingness to take his advice to help you better understand.

[Valerie]

Oral tradition was just ancient church standards. Not inspired, just practical agreements to live by. Problem is when they get confused with scripture. Ossified oral teachings have little place in contemporary life.

How do you know this? Were you there? For one thing it is abundantly clear from Scripture in the new testament, that there were prophets in the Christian Church- yet we really have nothing written about what they prophesied. The Holy Spirit is not necessarily a writer- so Apostle Paul was clear there was oral and written teachings. Even Scripture states not everything Jesus did was written down. So when you question things look at the fact in all places the Apostles took the Gospel and started Churches even Thomas to India, certain things were understood and done all throughout these churches and are to this day.

[RZehr]

Oral tradition was just ancient church standards. Not inspired, just practical agreements to live by. Problem is when they get confused with scripture. Ossified oral teachings have little place in contemporary life.

How do you know this? Were you there? For one thing it is abundantly clear from Scripture in the new testament, that there were prophets in the Christian Church- yet we really have nothing written about what they prophesied. The Holy Spirit is not necessarily a writer- so Apostle Paul was clear there was oral and written teachings. Even Scripture states not everything Jesus did was written down. So when you question things look at the fact in all places the Apostles took the Gospel and started Churches even Thomas to India, certain things were understood and done all throughout these churches and are to this day.

Do I look 2000 years old?

It is the only thing that makes sense, that is why. And it still makes sense today, to have some practical traditions that are the result of a group of people putting Biblical doctrine and principles into shoe leather. And we don’t say that they are…how does the evangelicals put it?…SALVATION ISSUES.
In another 2000 years, I hope that people won’t read my church standards and think that they are some sort of oral tradition on par with scripture. They aren’t and won’t be the same as scriptures, just as the orthodox’s traditions aren’t either.

Of course there was a lot of stuff Jesus and the Apostles and the early church taught that wasn’t written in the Bible. It was practical stuff for that culture and time that was similar to our church standards.

[Josh]

At the end of the day, respectful queries such as those submitted by Heirbyadoption and others can help with comprehension of Catholic devotional theology. If discomfort still exists about Catholic Marian practices that is not an impediment to Christian charity in my opinion. Pray to Jesus. He wants to talk with us all.

If I wanted to know something about Catholicism I would ask one of my Catholic friends. I wouldn’t ask anonymous people on a Mennonite forum.

[Josh]

And you still need to remember everything the Church was taught was not written down.
...
So the Bible is clear not all instructions or traditions were written down.

Surely they've all been written down by now, haven't they? Have they been collected in a book or set of books where one can read and study them? Or are some of the traditions still stubbornly oral?

Yes - they’re in Bible Doctrines & Practice, which is available from Gospel Publishers.

You can also get a booklet of conference decisions starting with the Jerusalem Conference.

[Soloist]

It’s particularly interesting to do a study on how the early church differentiated veneration and worship. I’ll give you a hint… they didn’t.

Also at what point did this three tier model of worship even come around?

As for nonresistance, we are called to earnestly contend for the faith. Non-resistance doesn’t apply to addressing about heresy. None of us are going to take you burn you or drown you. That would obviously cross the line as has been done by the Catholics and the Lutherans. And the orthodox ran governments.