A YouTuber visits a Nationwide Fellowship church

[danfreed]

Jesus had strong words in Matthew 23 about religious fixation on the outward appearance....

"Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites, for ye are like whited sepulchres,
which appear beautiful outwardly, but within are full of dead men’s bones and all uncleanness.
Thus also ye, outwardly ye appear righteous to men, but within are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness."
(Matthew 23:27-28)

As a recovering Pharisee, I'm so happy for fellow-believers (Christians, of all different backgrounds) who help me focus on what really matters - a relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ, and the transformed life that flows from Him.

And from our brother Paul in Romans 14...
17 For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking but of righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit.
18 Whoever thus serves Christ is acceptable to God and approved by men.
19 So then let us pursue what makes for peace and for mutual upbuilding..

[Josh]

Jesus had strong words in Matthew 23 about religious fixation on the outward appearance....

"Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites, for ye are like whited sepulchres,
which appear beautiful outwardly, but within are full of dead men’s bones and all uncleanness.
Thus also ye, outwardly ye appear righteous to men, but within are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness."
(Matthew 23:27-28)

As a recovering Pharisee, I'm so happy for fellow-believers (Christians, of all different backgrounds) who help me focus on what really matters - a relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ, and the transformed life that flows from Him.

And from our brother Paul in Romans 14...
17 For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking but of righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit.
18 Whoever thus serves Christ is acceptable to God and approved by men.
19 So then let us pursue what makes for peace and for mutual upbuilding..

Does any of that excuse blatant disobedience as is found in a typical “Bible believing” evangelical church?

[GoodGirl]

In my experience, there is more variation in NWF.

The NWF we attended was a small conservative subset within NWF, called Mennonite Christian Brotherhood.
It was very, very conservative.
We were ‘warned’ about more liberal NWF, and were told the variations were getting bigger and would probably end in a split in the next 5 years or so.

I would say Eastern is more strict (ok, can I say even robotic at times?) & much more ‘consistent’ overall.

[GoodGirl]

While I have limited experience, i’ve met first generation converts in nationwide. I’ve only met second generation in Eastern. In other words, The parents don’t make it.

This makes me feel better… although personally, I wouldn’t have it as an Eastern either.

[Sudsy]

Jesus had strong words in Matthew 23 about religious fixation on the outward appearance....

"Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites, for ye are like whited sepulchres,
which appear beautiful outwardly, but within are full of dead men’s bones and all uncleanness.
Thus also ye, outwardly ye appear righteous to men, but within are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness."
(Matthew 23:27-28)

As a recovering Pharisee, I'm so happy for fellow-believers (Christians, of all different backgrounds) who help me focus on what really matters - a relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ, and the transformed life that flows from Him.

And from our brother Paul in Romans 14...
17 For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking but of righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit.
18 Whoever thus serves Christ is acceptable to God and approved by men.
19 So then let us pursue what makes for peace and for mutual upbuilding..

Amen brother.

I believe all this outward appearance focusing having to do with dress and other forms of 'holiness' has resulted in various church splits and is not what matters most to God. When the focus wanders from reaching the lost this sort of thing happens with churches. I have seen it in some Pentecostal and other types of 'holiness' focused churches. This thread is so discouraging to read how various Anabaptists have not focused their attention on what Paul called 'of first importance' and the proclaiming of that Gospel to the world. Take away the practise of having large families and I suspect that many Anabaptists would be quite like other Christian churches who they call 'liberal' churches and who are closing their doors.

The righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit cannot be had by those who put little mention and attention to what in the Holy Spirit living involves. It becomes self-righteousness, false peace through adherence to rules and lack of real joy in the Spirit, imo.

Obviously my views on this are not shared by non-evangelical focused Anabaptists but I'll share them anyway.

[RZehr]

Ah yes, “God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are,” Lk. 18:11

[GoodGirl]

Ah yes, “God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are,” Lk. 18:11

Yes. I have seen this so much.

Just my personal observation, but do know who has never been like that to us? Horse & buggy people.
Whether Amish, or Wenger (especially Wenger), or one of the tiny extra conservative break offs, they were seriously always kind & encouraging to us… cracking jokes, stopping over…

I know it’s not good to lump a whole group together, but I really appreciate them as a whole.

[NedFlanders]

Jesus had strong words in Matthew 23 about religious fixation on the outward appearance....

"Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites, for ye are like whited sepulchres,
which appear beautiful outwardly, but within are full of dead men’s bones and all uncleanness.
Thus also ye, outwardly ye appear righteous to men, but within are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness."
(Matthew 23:27-28)

As a recovering Pharisee, I'm so happy for fellow-believers (Christians, of all different backgrounds) who help me focus on what really matters - a relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ, and the transformed life that flows from Him.

And from our brother Paul in Romans 14...
17 For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking but of righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit.
18 Whoever thus serves Christ is acceptable to God and approved by men.
19 So then let us pursue what makes for peace and for mutual upbuilding..

Perspective is key here. Just because you were a Pharisee doesn’t mean that others that have a particular dress are.

In fact, in my context of coming from the world I love the simple uniform dress found in ultra churches because most everyone is dressed the same - it lends to an environment where thinking on what to wear, looking at outward differences, tier classes by clothing, being distracted by flamboyant people showing off there new clothes has stopped in my life. Clothing is one of furthest things from focus. It is so beautiful - but again perspective- it isn’t legalistic when people are excited to do by the right motivation.

Be careful assuming motivation especially because of outward appearance - that, I think, more accurately describes the Pharisee problem.

[Ken]

In fact, in my context of coming from the world I love the simple uniform dress found in ultra churches because most everyone is dressed the same - it lends to an environment where thinking on what to wear, looking at outward differences, tier classes by clothing, being distracted by flamboyant people showing off there new clothes has stopped in my life. Clothing is one of furthest things from focus. It is so beautiful - but again perspective- it isn’t legalistic when people are excited to do by the right motivation.

But that isn't how it works in real life. As people here have relayed in their person experiences, there are conservative groups who are obsessively focused on enforcing specific clothing rules. It is not 'the furthest thing from focus" It is the center of focus.

[NedFlanders]

In fact, in my context of coming from the world I love the simple uniform dress found in ultra churches because most everyone is dressed the same - it lends to an environment where thinking on what to wear, looking at outward differences, tier classes by clothing, being distracted by flamboyant people showing off there new clothes has stopped in my life. Clothing is one of furthest things from focus. It is so beautiful - but again perspective- it isn’t legalistic when people are excited to do by the right motivation.

But that isn't how it works in real life. As people here have relayed in their person experiences, there are conservative groups who are obsessively focused on enforcing specific clothing rules. It is not 'the furthest thing from focus" It is the center of focus.

It is hard to imagine a people who gather as a church to have clothing rules as a center of focus. Really? That is not real life.

Be careful assuming motivation especially because of outward appearance - that, I think, more accurately describes the Pharisee problem.