A YouTuber visits a Nationwide Fellowship church

[RZehr]

While I am sure there are cases of converts in Anabaptist churches having submission issues there is an important aspect that the ministry sometimes neglect.

In order for a “seeker” to get there in the first place he needed qualities that are not appreciated in their new settings.

Such as an open mind, a questioning attitude, independence in though and action.

These churches rebuke individualism and related qualities and those churches are not all wrong…. But they are not all right about this either. An attitude of well, sure you were right to question that stuff over ther but….now that you are here just get in line is a mistake.

Maybe Eastern is a lot different from Nationwide because you are incorrect in my experience. Open mind, questioning, and having the ability to act and think in the world by your own conscience and conviction is encouraged from my experience and needed to keep the faith strong.

I’m not in NWF, but my impression is that NWF indeed does have more freedom to consider, have ideas, have personal convictions, than the basic run of the mill Eastern church. I attribute this to the more congregational structure of NWF.

But I’m no expert and I don’t dismiss GG experience.

[Judas Maccabeus]

Just what is the difference between Nationwide and Eastern. To this observer they look identical except for their model of church governance. What am I missing? I have been around both and have appreciated the fellowship. Join one of them….for us not possible.

[Josh]

Cory Anderson put different conservative groups on a gradient, eg BMA was in group A, Mid-West in B, Pilgrim in C, and Eastern in E.

He created a unique category for NFC, Group D, “between” groups like Hope and Pilgrim vs Eastern and Ohio Wislers.

[Soloist]

Well in my observations Nationwide actually is open to change especially in a more conservative view. I don’t know if I caused the stones rolling or if they already were going but the first time we visited, the discussion was on coverings and I proposed that opaque (in my jeans) was more conservative as it actually fulfilled a cover. They took my suggestion seriously and discussed it for several minutes and generally seems supportive of the concept. That was unusually surprising to me based off of my Mennonite experience up to that point. That time there was 1 opaque covering besides my wife, another seeker who married in. Next time there was several.
If there was a nationwide church I might have a chance at, that church would be it. They are upfront about Nursing being an unacceptable career, and they are upfront about no Internet use. It certainly would not be an easy integration…

Eastern will flat out forbid an opaque covering as a sign of liberalism and point to churches that allow it will eventually go to the veil and then get smaller and smaller. I honestly disagree that the covering is the reason as I’ve seen the see through covering get smaller and smaller until it’s a token symbol.

Nationwide for all their strictness seems like you have more diversity and the chance of integration seems very situational. Eastern, you either can survive the structure or you don’t.
While I have limited experience, i’ve met first generation converts in nationwide. I’ve only met second generation in Eastern. In other words, The parents don’t make it.

[MaxPC]

This is a fascinating thread. Thank you all.

Can it be considered that there are pendulum swings within any given congregation between more traditional and less traditional practices?
Example: a congregation may start out with no buttons. The next generation decides that buttons are allowed. Then a revival of tradition occurs with the next generation and the no-buttons rule re-emerges.

[JayP]

That certainly is more true in NWF than EPMC. Individual congregations in EPMC do not innovate.
They have a different word for that.

[NedFlanders]

Well in my observations Nationwide actually is open to change especially in a more conservative view. I don’t know if I caused the stones rolling or if they already were going but the first time we visited, the discussion was on coverings and I proposed that opaque (in my jeans) was more conservative as it actually fulfilled a cover. They took my suggestion seriously and discussed it for several minutes and generally seems supportive of the concept. That was unusually surprising to me based off of my Mennonite experience up to that point. That time there was 1 opaque covering besides my wife, another seeker who married in. Next time there was several.
If there was a nationwide church I might have a chance at, that church would be it. They are upfront about Nursing being an unacceptable career, and they are upfront about no Internet use. It certainly would not be an easy integration…

Eastern will flat out forbid an opaque covering as a sign of liberalism and point to churches that allow it will eventually go to the veil and then get smaller and smaller. I honestly disagree that the covering is the reason as I’ve seen the see through covering get smaller and smaller until it’s a token symbol.

Nationwide for all their strictness seems like you have more diversity and the chance of integration seems very situational. Eastern, you either can survive the structure or you don’t.
While I have limited experience, i’ve met first generation converts in nationwide. I’ve only met second generation in Eastern. In other words, The parents don’t make it.

I know of a couple NWF nurses. And internet filtered is allowed. There is a diversity between congregations as they are autonomous. That’s where your word situational is quite true.
But I believe every now and then congregations are reeled back in and called to take a stand to keep a closer path traveled than letting go of biblical principles as applied by the rest of the fellowship- after all if they are brothers in Christ and one congregation does decide to do things so differently it could be prideful in thinking they know better than everyone else they are joined to.

[Josh]

NFC’s culture of “reeling back” allows them to not be on a permanent path to being more worldly. (Holdemans do a similar thing.)

Otherwise, the only way to reel back changes is through splits - like Eastern is experiencing with the Appalachian group. As far as I know, NFC hasn’t had many splits.

[cooper]

As far as I know, NFC hasn’t had many splits.

NWF does have splits and separations but I think their structure does make these less destructive and painful. CMCO left Nationwide in the 1990s. I can think of quite a few congregations that disaffiliated with NWF and are now unaffiliated. I can also think of Nationwide churches with splits where those leaving start an Eastern or Pilgrim church.

[Ernie]

This is a fascinating thread. Thank you all.

Can it be considered that there are pendulum swings within any given congregation between more traditional and less traditional practices?
Example: a congregation may start out with no buttons. The next generation decides that buttons are allowed. Then a revival of tradition occurs with the next generation and the no-buttons rule re-emerges.

There is probably not ever a going back to "buttons", as that cannot be found in scripture.
However, something like size of headcoverings have been an issue ever since the days of Tertullian. Most women do not want to cover their heads or their hair and will keep making their headcovers smaller until they disappear. And all along the path, the wearers of headcoverings will continue to defend the practice and wag their heads at those who discontinue headcovering, even if their own "headcover" is becoming a joke.

Occasionally a church or group of churches will try to make headcoverings more opaque or regain some ground in terms of size, but this is rare.

Ultra conservatives are very regulated when it comes to church standards, and they can maintain practices that all the other constituencies have trouble keeping.