A YouTuber visits a Nationwide Fellowship church

[Josh]

There are (or were, a few years ago) CMC churches that were still plain, like the community near Catlett VA. At the national CMC conference it was obvious who was “conservative”, including the youth. I’d say about 15% at the CMC conference in 2017, the last one I attended.

[Sudsy]

I think the only thing I have to say about this video and what ultra-conservatives stand for is this...

What the majority of children are given in these settings, is better preparation for life than what most of the 8 billion people in the world get.
I'm just glad that it isn't our only choice.
But while saying this, I will also say that most people who grow up in and leave a setting like this -- lose more than they gain in the long run. Consequently, I would discourage most from leaving.

I would agree with this too.

Ultras teach that family togetherness is very important. Thus I’m reluctant to encourage seekers to go to ultra settings, since even if the children become members and stay, the parents often don’t make it.

For someone born and raised in that culture I would encourage them to stay. In a sense ultras are becoming an Old Order.

I would encourage them to look at the scriptures and study what Jesus demonstrated and taught and see how this matches up to these practises. Jesus had a very different way of living in what it means to 'come out from among them and be ye separate saith the Lord'. He did not support the various forms of isolation that some take. Seeking and winning the lost, which was His main focus, is not done by removing oneself into a comfortable, protected way of life avoiding worldly influence.

Jesus demonstrated that we can be in the world but not of the world and He criticized those religious people of His day that were only focused on themselves and their religious ways. The early church did not grow just by having large families but rather they went out to reach the lost where it is often not comfortable and many of them lost their lives doing it.

A major problem, imo, with what some call 'conservative' Christianity is the focus is primarily on themselves and their efforts are more of the same nature as the Pharisees in Jesus day. Jesus pointed out how they were not focused on the more important spiritual matters. Their focus was on themselves and their own righteousness. Getting a group of people to all agree to conform to a defined list of holiness standards, imo, is also contrary to scripture and group after group keep splitting off from one another in this pursuit.

On the other hand those groups who are reaching out with 'the Gospel', imo, are preaching another gospel that is not one that is life changing to any noticeable amount. They, too, are promoting a form of Christianity that is not preached and practised by Jesus and the early church. One can make converts by various means but converts to what and/or to whom ? So, I find it quite difficult to find a group of believers that are both involved in evangelism and also keen on growing in sanctification as the Lord works in each person's life and not by enforcing a set of rules.

So what to do ? Join a group that focuses on their own salvation and sanctification and shows by their actions little concern for the lost ? Or find a group that is focused on reaching the lost but reaching them with a gospel that is not a life changing, born again, new way of life ? Or not join a local church, which it appears some here, including myself, are doing at the moment and which the scriptures discourage doing ? My parents had quite an impact on what I perceive as most important and it involves being part of a local church that has it's flaws but primarily is evangelistic, is growing with new converts and preaches and teaches a changed life in following Jesus. This narrows the choices down in my city to one or two from many here where I live and even these are not what could be called 'on fire' churches. And it seems this dilemma is growing and I see more Christians just seeking fellowship in their homes and on the Internet with a few others than I ever witnessed before.

Anyway, back to the topic. I would love the experience of living for a year in one of these closed communities as it would appear to me to be a little bit of heaven on earth to be so removed from worldly activity and influence. However, I would probably always feel guilty and selfish in this way of living.

[NedFlanders]

Interesting have you give two options. Ironically, it then sounds like to me that the only way you see to fulfill living out for Christ is to do both. Maybe not all but many ultras do do both too. What you will find is a mindset that comprising my own walk with God is not worth reaching out for - not for my own salvation but because a less consecrated walk makes my reaching out futile at the same time. Some in these churches are self focused but many are also not - the biggest issue is relating at times because when for example a person (from the world or thinking only in there own context) may see a man that is clean shaven as prideful and trying to look good for woman(at least this is what it meant in my context) it doesn’t mean that shaven Mennonite men are doing that for prideful attraction reasons. Likewise, living more isolated doesn’t automatically mean they are running from the world- they do know sin starts in hearts and minds!

[Josh]

One challenge is that a seeker has no idea they are going to, well, a terrible church in an otherwise good conference.

It looks like GG ran into this, and I myself did too - there was simply no way to know ahead of time.

The good news is, I really really appreciate my church now…

[justme]

...it doesn't really line up that many people who are seekers are actually nonconformists - they have spent their whole life refusing to be conformed to what the world and its authority figures want, so why would they suddenly do a 180 and just shut their brains off and do whatever their new authority figures tell them?

this is essentially my understanding of the difficulties that people have when they try to enter conservative groups.
they are individualists trying to enter into a lifestyle of submission to the group.

[temporal1]

...it doesn't really line up that many people who are seekers are actually nonconformists - they have spent their whole life refusing to be conformed to what the world and its authority figures want, so why would they suddenly do a 180 and just shut their brains off and do whatever their new authority figures tell them?

this is essentially my understanding of the difficulties that people have when they try to enter conservative groups.
they are individualists trying to enter into a lifestyle of submission to the group.

really important.
in U.S. culture, “submission” is considered a dirty word.
even the very idea that a wife would submit to her husband has become a foreign concept. it’s not recognized. if anything, it’s considered offensive.

in Christianity, it’s the constant goal. Jesus modeled perfect submission to His Father in the most harrowing circumstances.

[Only an Anz]

This fellow confused 1956 with the 1800s. Or more accurately, what was a common lifestyle 70 years ago seems to folks today like it was centuries ago.

At what point did Mennonites decide to have clean shaven faces and why? We visited Shiloh OH a few years ago, horse and buggy Mennonites and having been used to beards on the Amish it just looked so odd to us to see all these men dressed like Amish with clean shaven faces.
Was that an intentional step to distinguish from Amish?

Mennonites are not all clean shaven. Eastern to my knowledge is and Nationwide is mostly clean shaven but there are some beards without mustache. Western fellowship beards were permitted and depending on church, mustache too. Pilgrim officially tolerates both but I’ve been told some are unhappy with the mustache.
Beachy from what I’ve heard have more beards and Amish tend to.

Catholics and Orthodox had a more violent feud over beards and that’s just as ridiculous. Why churches care so much over men’s facial hair and come out on both sides seems irrational.

I have a family member (admittedly a convert) who was allowed to have a beard w/o mustache with Eastern.

[Judas Maccabeus]

...it doesn't really line up that many people who are seekers are actually nonconformists - they have spent their whole life refusing to be conformed to what the world and its authority figures want, so why would they suddenly do a 180 and just shut their brains off and do whatever their new authority figures tell them?

this is essentially my understanding of the difficulties that people have when they try to enter conservative groups.
they are individualists trying to enter into a lifestyle of submission to the group.

In most cases you have to be to have walked away from wherever you were. However, you are likely to have been a misfit wherever you were. It may sound odd, but in my conservative church, it was the first time I could let down my guard and be myself.

Believing in nonresistance in a church full of Christian Nationalists can be an experience. I have been called a communist more than once when it became clear I would not fight for America and discourage others from doing so as well.

Never got that in my Mennonite church.

[JayP]

While I am sure there are cases of converts in Anabaptist churches having submission issues there is an important aspect that the ministry sometimes neglect.

In order for a “seeker” to get there in the first place he needed qualities that are not appreciated in their new settings.

Such as an open mind, a questioning attitude, independence in though and action.

These churches rebuke individualism and related qualities and those churches are not all wrong…. But they are not all right about this either. An attitude of well, sure you were right to question that stuff over ther but….now that you are here just get in line is a mistake.

[NedFlanders]

While I am sure there are cases of converts in Anabaptist churches having submission issues there is an important aspect that the ministry sometimes neglect.

In order for a “seeker” to get there in the first place he needed qualities that are not appreciated in their new settings.

Such as an open mind, a questioning attitude, independence in though and action.

These churches rebuke individualism and related qualities and those churches are not all wrong…. But they are not all right about this either. An attitude of well, sure you were right to question that stuff over ther but….now that you are here just get in line is a mistake.

Maybe Eastern is a lot different from Nationwide because you are incorrect in my experience. Open mind, questioning, and having the ability to act and think in the world by your own conscience and conviction is encouraged from my experience and needed to keep the faith strong.