"English" who join the Amish

[Verity]

something about toes suggesting cleavage

That's a new one. Sounds like one more case of someone trying to strengthen a position/opinion/tradition/preference and instead making a fool of themselves and a mockery of what they intended to support. Goes right along with sleeves needing to cover the elbow because on a tightly bent arm the elbow could remind a man of a breast.

I have never heard of anyone who actually believes that bare toes and a bent elbow resemble anything of the sort. Yet I have heard of such things, but always with an urban legend style. Something that people occasionally will share. I'd love to meet someone who actually started these connections.

I think that these two things (and dually pickup stuff) may have only two reasons for lasting, neither of which is genuine to the purported reasons.
1. They are perpetuated by those who shake their head at it, and are shared as examples of the ridiculousness about sexuality that exists in ultra conservative groups.
2. They are used by ultra conservative preachers who are trying to get people to wear shoes and long sleeves. In this case these similarities may be shared not because the preachers themselves actually believe them but instead are presented as something that "other" people might believe.
When in reality (I am proposing) there really exists no "other" people who believe anything of the sort. No one believes it at all, the accounts just serve as a tool, and a titillating apocryphal tale that is not allowed to die.

This is the real deal, I've talked with the folks personally. Rather, listened to them. People who adhere to extreme ideas are rarely open to communication. And yes, I could name preachers who actually preached this in my hearing. It is indeed a small subset, but possibly fueled confused concepts about sexuality. On a few occasions, the individuals in question granted my request to enlighten me from the Scriptures sound basis for their ideas. It was a wild ride.

This is not limited to Eastern, of course. Years ago, in the Baptist church, a zealous youth pastor fresh out of college came and was telling us young folks that sandals were of the devil and the bare toe spew (it was not uncommon for women and girls to wear dressy sandals during the summer). The senior youth pastor quietly told some of us he thinks this fellow has issues, to be alert. Not long after he was dismissed due to misconduct with some of the girls. That was my first introduction to the term fetish.

It has puzzled me why those who take issues with toes never mention fingers/hands. There seems to be a shortage of good looking toes in the world, but fingers would be another story.

[Soloist]

It has puzzled me why those who take issues with toes never mention fingers/hands. There seems to be a shortage of good looking toes in the world, but fingers would be another story.

I still remember movies where the women would wear long gloves and veils over the face. Highly decorative of course and I sort of doubt any working class wore gloves outside of protection.

[RZehr]

That's a new one. Sounds like one more case of someone trying to strengthen a position/opinion/tradition/preference and instead making a fool of themselves and a mockery of what they intended to support. Goes right along with sleeves needing to cover the elbow because on a tightly bent arm the elbow could remind a man of a breast.

I have never heard of anyone who actually believes that bare toes and a bent elbow resemble anything of the sort. Yet I have heard of such things, but always with an urban legend style. Something that people occasionally will share. I'd love to meet someone who actually started these connections.

I think that these two things (and dually pickup stuff) may have only two reasons for lasting, neither of which is genuine to the purported reasons.
1. They are perpetuated by those who shake their head at it, and are shared as examples of the ridiculousness about sexuality that exists in ultra conservative groups.
2. They are used by ultra conservative preachers who are trying to get people to wear shoes and long sleeves. In this case these similarities may be shared not because the preachers themselves actually believe them but instead are presented as something that "other" people might believe.
When in reality (I am proposing) there really exists no "other" people who believe anything of the sort. No one believes it at all, the accounts just serve as a tool, and a titillating apocryphal tale that is not allowed to die.

This is the real deal, I've talked with the folks personally. Rather, listened to them. People who adhere to extreme ideas are rarely open to communication. And yes, I could name preachers who actually preached this in my hearing. It is indeed a small subset, but possibly fueled confused concepts about sexuality. On a few occasions, the individuals in question granted my request to enlighten me from the Scriptures sound basis for their ideas. It was a wild ride.

This is not limited to Eastern, of course. Years ago, in the Baptist church, a zealous youth pastor fresh out of college came and was telling us young folks that sandals were of the devil and the bare toe spew (it was not uncommon for women and girls to wear dressy sandals during the summer). The senior youth pastor quietly told some of us he thinks this fellow has issues, to be alert. Not long after he was dismissed due to misconduct with some of the girls. That was my first introduction to the term fetish.

It has puzzled me why those who take issues with toes never mention fingers/hands. There seems to be a shortage of good looking toes in the world, but fingers would be another story.

Just to reiterate, these Mennonite preachers and people would admit to personally holding this weird belief themselves, and not just believe that it is a real problem for someone else? Individuals have said to you the equivalent of “These toes/elbows make me think inappropriately about women”?

[Verity]

Correct, they hold to this personally and feel it is the right and holy way to see things. The Scriptures they quote and use do not back it up and any examples given are weak at best, usually laughable.

I'm not saying this to poke fun at any of them. Some were deeply hurt earlier in life and this appears to be their way of handling it. There are things I appreciate in each of them, and on many other subjects they are sane and sensible.

[RZehr]

Correct, they hold to this personally and feel it is the right and holy way to see things. The Scriptures they quote and use do not back it up and any examples given are weak at best, usually laughable.

I'm not saying this to poke fun at any of them. Some were deeply hurt earlier in life and this appears to be their way of handling it. There are things I appreciate in each of them, and on many other subjects they are sane and sensible.

Brainwashed.

[Verity]

Two real life examples, given to me first hand and I know all of the individuals involved quite well.

1. A family was out working in the garden, all of them bare footed. The ladies all had dresses that reached their ankles. One of the men in question stopped in unannounced. The ladies left right away to go inside and clean up, which involved putting stockings and shoes on. The man in question was extremely angry over seeing them barefoot, despite the father calmly and quietly reminding him that they had no idea he was coming and were in the privacy of their secluded garden. The man in question felt his response was "righteous anger" and was further upset later when the family decided to restrict contact with him and his family somewhat, questioning the safety of their children around him/his sons.

2. A married sister had a visit by her married brother's family. She pushed her sleeves up above her elbows to wash a deep sink full of large butchering dishes. Her married brother saw her at the sink and told her angrily that he will not allow her to cause his (young) sons to stumble by exposing her elbows and demanded she push her sleeves down. She reminded him that this was her home, not his, and she was under her husband's authority. He insisted she obey and told her in no uncertain terms to never "uncover her arm" in his house.

All the individuals involved were Eastern. I could list more.

[RZehr]

It reminds me of the statistics on molestation. A person who has been molested is more likely to molest others.

In this case the men who have these perverse thoughts, were probably conditioned to think such thoughts by others.

[Verity]

I think you are correct. It is sad, because they promote these extreme ideas as more holy or right when that is far from the truth. God does not call us to fear, which these ideas are steeped in.

[Josh]

I think you are correct. It is sad, because they promote these extreme ideas as more holy or right when that is far from the truth. God does not call us to fear, which these ideas are steeped in.

It seems like, overall, some people in Eastern take a rather extreme view of, well, everything. Clothing/modesty is just one of many areas this gets applied to.

The dual-wheeled pickup story still seems apocryphal. I have heard it second hand from quite a few people but nobody has ever been able to get closer to a primary source. Verity's anecdotes, on the other hand, seem much more believable.

[Ken]

The dual-wheeled pickup story still seems apocryphal. I have heard it second hand from quite a few people but nobody has ever been able to get closer to a primary source. Verity's anecdotes, on the other hand, seem much more believable.

Whether or not it is true, it is believable because they have so many other equally ridiculous obsessions like bare elbows.