"English" who join the Amish

[Ernie]

Perhaps my view is not the majority one, but explicitly teaching people not to smile at strangers would seem to fall in the category of teaching people to be grumpy / unpleasant / not smile / whatever. Then again, I grew up in a culture where I was taught to smile and be friendly in my interactions with basically anyone. So maybe my cultural background is a bit different here.

But this opposite/extreme thing happens on hundreds of topics, not just this one. (If not this _______ then it is _________)

This is a way of looking at the world and a way of viewing reality. And maybe it comes from the culture where you grew up...

[ken_sylvania]

ken_s,

Is the quotation from Verity sufficient? That is what I was referring to. I summarised it based on memory (I last read the book in 2017.)

The quotation from Verity proves my point. It very clearly does not say "never smile at all" and it's even more obvious that it does not say to be "grumpy and unpleasant."

I'm not saying the book is well worded, but it very clearly does not say what you've been claiming it says.

[Josh]

ken_s,

Is the quotation from Verity sufficient? That is what I was referring to. I summarised it based on memory (I last read the book in 2017.)

The quotation from Verity proves my point. It very clearly does not say "never smile at all" and it's even more obvious that it does not say to be "grumpy and unpleasant."

I'm not saying the book is well worded, but it very clearly does not say what you've been claiming it says.

I would interpret “do not smile” and “do not be friendly” as something active, not passive. A person that refuses to smile and is unfriendly (can I claim “do not be friendly” means “unfriendly”?) is someone I will interpret as being grumpy and unpleasant towards me.

You’re welcome to have your own interpretation.

[Verity]

false dichotomy
[ fawlsdahy-kot-uh-mee ]
noun

a logical fallacy in which a spectrum of possible options is misrepresented as an either-or choice between two mutually exclusive things.

[RZehr]

Direct quote from "Dear Princess" chapter 28 "Safeguards from Evil Men"
"The first point I have here is that we should always be modestly dressed so there is nothing about our person that excites the lustful nature of a man."
"We should not smile in a friendly way to strange men or boys, or to men or boys we know are not Christian. Many men would be encouraged by this to make friendly approaches to us."

I have had sisters and my wife, tell me how their intentions (and actions) were to be courteous, polite, and friendly, (and not flirtatious at all) and men mistook that for who knows what. In these women's words, the men started to act "creepy" and "over friendly".

Could these women be misreading these men's intentions, just as the men misread theirs? Sure. But misreading peoples interest in oneself is a well written about phenomenon that society is very familiar with. Happens not infrequently for young singles.

For women, sometimes the best thing to do with these men, is in fact, to not smile at them.

But the excerpt should be written in a better way if girls are thinking that they must be to blame if a man behaves unseemly towards them.
There are more than a couple "creepy" men out there, I suppose. So I wouldn't see any problem with educating or warning these innocent and ignorant girls about some of these men, and give them some tools to deal with them. Which is possibly what the intent of the writer was.

I don't like that the solution to this problem is to treat all these men and boys as if these males were all pervs, and so they don't get treated nice. That seems over the top. But if a guy is acting weird, I would for sure tell the girl to ignore him or whatever it took to let him know that he isn't going to get anywhere, and to leave. This is a tactic that many women use, not just Mennonite girls.

[ken_sylvania]

ken_s,

Is the quotation from Verity sufficient? That is what I was referring to. I summarised it based on memory (I last read the book in 2017.)

The quotation from Verity proves my point. It very clearly does not say "never smile at all" and it's even more obvious that it does not say to be "grumpy and unpleasant."

I'm not saying the book is well worded, but it very clearly does not say what you've been claiming it says.

I would interpret “do not smile” and “do not be friendly” as something active, not passive. A person that refuses to smile and is unfriendly (can I claim “do not be friendly” means “unfriendly”?) is someone I will interpret as being grumpy and unpleasant towards me.

You’re welcome to have your own interpretation.

Accusing the author of telling girls to be grumpy and unpleasant is a false accusation. If she had wanted to tell them to be grumpy and unpleasant she sure enough could have used those words.

[Josh]

Last I checked perverted men don’t let the lack of smile stop them.

[RZehr]

Last I checked perverted men don’t let the lack of smile stop them.

I still would not advise girls to smile at perverted men, or to wear revealing clothes around perverted men.

[Josh]

Last I checked perverted men don’t let the lack of smile stop them.

I still would not advise girls to smile at perverted men, or to wear revealing clothes around perverted men.

Yes. But that’s very different from teaching never to smile or be friendly to someone you don’t know, or towards anyone who isn’t a Christian. It presents a very odd witness to the world indeed if the standard is “I need to not smile at you and not be friendly if I know you aren’t a Christian.”

[RZehr]

Last I checked perverted men don’t let the lack of smile stop them.

I still would not advise girls to smile at perverted men, or to wear revealing clothes around perverted men.

Yes. But that’s very different from teaching never to smile or be friendly to someone you don’t know, or towards anyone who isn’t a Christian. It presents a very odd witness to the world indeed if the standard is “I need to not smile at you and not be friendly if I know you aren’t a Christian.”

I agree with that. In fact I've told my teenaged daughter to smile more, because she has a nice smile.