Should CA ministers, deacons, and bishops be paid?

[ken_sylvania]

Eastern and Pilgrim lift, I believe, quarterly offerings for ministerial aid. In Pilgrim, the bishops got double what the ministers (and I suppose the deacons were included) received. When a minister came from a distance to preach for a Sunday evening or a Winter Bible School message, they were paid a fixed amount (if I remember correctly it was $50.00) plus mileage. This was in addition to the Ministerial aid.
The ministerial aid offerings were never large. No one got rich from preaching.

Eastern tends to operate as if Lancaster in 1950 was the kingdom of heaven, and tries to do things exactly like Lancaster did back then.

I'm guessing the amount of $50.00 was fixed in or before 1968 and will remain the same throughout eternity, inflation notwithstanding.

I understand now that this is a mark of being 'conservative'. (And the minister in question must also be 'conservative', or he'll go into debt in the process, just paying for the food he eats on the trip there & back home.) I have to wonder what the mileage allowance is.....

You must be picturing a rotund preacher!
Who eats $50 worth of food on a road trip four hours each way?

[Neto]

I'm guessing the amount of $50.00 was fixed in or before 1968 and will remain the same throughout eternity, inflation notwithstanding.

I understand now that this is a mark of being 'conservative'. (And the minister in question must also be 'conservative', or he'll go into debt in the process, just paying for the food he eats on the trip there & back home.) I have to wonder what the mileage allowance is.....

You must be picturing a rotund preacher!
Who eats $50 worth of food on a road trip four hours each way?

"from a distance" is somewhat vague. Maybe I missed the mention of the actual distance in an earlier post. At today's prices, $25.00 doesn't go very far.

[Ernie]

How do we change to this way of thinking as conservative Anabaptists?

Do some interviews with churches who hire pastors one day per week or support them otherwise so that they don't have to work a job 40 hours per week. Then write a book about it or do a series of interviews on Anabaptist Perspectives. And produce an article for Anabaptist Viewpoint.

In the early church, being ordained as an elder meant leaving your job and becoming fully involved in the church. Elders were expected to live a life of sacrifice and life of poverty, basically. If we did that today, it would take care of many unhealthy motives for wanting to be a paid preacher.

I would suggest seeking the Lord, scripture and your brotherhood first.

If you and Gary are struggling in anyway I hope that it is all laid out to your closest brethren.

Being a leader and wanting to change the way of thinking of other so you can get paid sounds really off…

You both seek to reach out so much it is inspiring but if you aren’t getting the support you need maybe it is God telling you to stop looking out so much and support those closest to you and build up within so you can support one another locally to the point of it having no other way but spilling out to others.

I don't think Gary is wanting more money from the congregation and neither am I. I think Gary could promote the concept of supporting ministers who could use extra, and I was suggesting that he make some suggestions to the Anabaptist church at large.

[thebluffs]

Our congregation holds 6 offerings per year for pastoral support- divided equally between our pastors and deacons. All bivocational - I believe each one receives around 7k per year from this to offset time off work, travel, meetings, etc all within our local congregation. Visiting preachers are paid a per diem as well as mileage or travel reimbursements.

[Josh]

A radical* idea would be a congregation that simply all supports each other (both ministers and laity). If I could find a congregation that did this, I would be glad to turn over my income to such an endeavour, and in turn I would rest knowing my brethren could help with an unexpected extraordinary need.

*As in, returning to the roots of Christianity.

[Soloist]

Eastern and Pilgrim lift, I believe, quarterly offerings for ministerial aid. In Pilgrim, the bishops got double what the ministers (and I suppose the deacons were included) received. When a minister came from a distance to preach for a Sunday evening or a Winter Bible School message, they were paid a fixed amount (if I remember correctly it was $50.00) plus mileage. This was in addition to the Ministerial aid.
The ministerial aid offerings were never large. No one got rich from preaching.

It has been a number of years since I was a part of either Eastern or Pilgrim.

Ah. The missing piece of the puzzle. Out here in the West we have generally a strong culture of every congregation having their own resident bishop. Not so with Eastern. Now I understand why. If something is incentivized, you shouldn’t expect it not to increase. Seems in Eastern bishops collect congregations like they are collectibles.

Wife: Well, finances must not be a strong enough incentive for our bishop because he’s been looking forward to them hopefully ordaining another one if there’s a church plant.

[barnhart]

Eastern and Pilgrim lift, I believe, quarterly offerings for ministerial aid. In Pilgrim, the bishops got double what the ministers (and I suppose the deacons were included) received. When a minister came from a distance to preach for a Sunday evening or a Winter Bible School message, they were paid a fixed amount (if I remember correctly it was $50.00) plus mileage. This was in addition to the Ministerial aid.
The ministerial aid offerings were never large. No one got rich from preaching.

It has been a number of years since I was a part of either Eastern or Pilgrim.

Ah. The missing piece of the puzzle. Out here in the West we have generally a strong culture of every congregation having their own resident bishop. Not so with Eastern. Now I understand why. If something is incentivized, you shouldn’t expect it not to increase. Seems in Eastern bishops collect congregations like they are collectibles.

Wife: Well, finances must not be a strong enough incentive for our bishop because he’s been looking forward to them hopefully ordaining another one if there’s a church plant.

If he is serving for those reasons, by all means ordain another to take his place.

[Soloist]

Ah. The missing piece of the puzzle. Out here in the West we have generally a strong culture of every congregation having their own resident bishop. Not so with Eastern. Now I understand why. If something is incentivized, you shouldn’t expect it not to increase. Seems in Eastern bishops collect congregations like they are collectibles.

Wife: Well, finances must not be a strong enough incentive for our bishop because he’s been looking forward to them hopefully ordaining another one if there’s a church plant.

If he is serving for those reasons, by all means ordain another to take his place.

Wife: Haha. I meant that he said that after another church plant, they are hoping to ordain a second bishop because it will get too hard for him to know everyone in his flock. So he's not trying to collect more congregations/get paid more.

[RZehr]

Wife: Well, finances must not be a strong enough incentive for our bishop because he’s been looking forward to them hopefully ordaining another one if there’s a church plant.

If he is serving for those reasons, by all means ordain another to take his place.

Wife: Haha. I meant that he said that after another church plant, they are hoping to ordain a second bishop because it will get too hard for him to know everyone in his flock. So he's not trying to collect more congregations/get paid more.

I don’t actually know any Eastern bishops. And I don’t actually believe that money is the reason they tend to have more churches under them than we tend to.

[MaxPC]

A radical* idea would be a congregation that simply all supports each other (both ministers and laity). If I could find a congregation that did this, I would be glad to turn over my income to such an endeavour, and in turn I would rest knowing my brethren could help with an unexpected extraordinary need.

*As in, returning to the roots of Christianity.

Hutterites.