Cons. Anabaptist ordination practices

[mike]

(So, what about the blue dyed hair? How did that one go? )

Nobody has tried it yet!

Be the change, Mike!

I think this is where Steve in Kville would say, don't tempt me with a good time!

[steve-in-kville]

Nobody has tried it yet!

Be the change, Mike!

I think this is where Steve in Kville would say, don't tempt me with a good time!

I have been known to say this

[Neto]

After the names of the class are announced many of those present will share words of encouragement (particularly sisters with sisters, brethren with brethren). After the ordination there is opportunity for all present to greet the entire class with their spouses and to offer blessings, words of encouragement, or simply a greeting and warm handshake.

I have never been able to understand why they call the group of eligible people who go through the lot, a "class".

Me neither, but then I have no idea either why a prickly fruit from the Philippines is called a pineapple.

Speaking of pineapples, there is an expression in Brazilian Portuguese which too often fits with this general topic - Que abacaxi! (Literally, "What a pineapple!", but the symbolism has to do with the prickly & thorny nature of the fruit.)

[mike]

For the Brethren here - are ordinations considered a "joyful" time? In our circles they are a time of much rejoicing.

I'm curious about that question as well. Although being ordained is probably the greatest honor one can be given in the Mennonite church, I think on balance our ordinations are more of a sad than a happy time. I think it's probably a joyful time for leaders because they are bringing in new assistants. But I think it's generally a bit of a sad time for everyone else because the ordained person and his family are aware that it is a huge change and a great responsibility. It might even be a hard time for the ordained person's friends, because their relationship with the ordained person will change. (In our church, the relationship between ordained and laity is sometimes characterized as a parent-child relationship. So it is a little hard to view a friend who is ordained as being on the same level as yourself.) One's family goes into a sort of fishbowl for greater scrutiny, and one's time will be consumed with innumerable meetings with local and conference leadership, leading or sitting in on all church and youth functions, preaching, and everything else that goes with it. I would pity the leadership for all that is piled on them, except for the fact that they create it for themselves. So, I would say an ordination is generally more of a sad and tense time than it is a joyful time.

[eccentric_rambler]

Mike's post aligns with my observations.

[Josh]

mike, that makes sense and sounds reasonable... Ernie's statement above (which he said he in turn heard from a KMF bishop) was that ordinations and church building projects are the time of the most turmoil for a congregation.

What I am saying is that this is not necessarily the CA norm. It isn't the case in my church, either thing. And it isn't for the Amish either, as far as I know (admittedly, it helps that they don't build church buildings). But for some reason it does seem to be the case in the fundamental to moderate to ultra conservative Mennonite circles. (I remain deeply curious if it is the case in intermediate-conservative Mennonite circles; based on what ken_sylvania, mike, and RZehr have already stated, it doesn't seem to be the case, interestingly enough.)

Ernie, if I got any of this wrong, please correct me.

[Signtist]

For the Brethren here - are ordinations considered a "joyful" time? In our circles they are a time of much rejoicing.

I'm curious about that question as well. Although being ordained is probably the greatest honor one can be given in the Mennonite church, I think on balance our ordinations are more of a sad than a happy time. I think it's probably a joyful time for leaders because they are bringing in new assistants. But I think it's generally a bit of a sad time for everyone else because the ordained person and his family are aware that it is a huge change and a great responsibility. It might even be a hard time for the ordained person's friends, because their relationship with the ordained person will change. (In our church, the relationship between ordained and laity is sometimes characterized as a parent-child relationship. So it is a little hard to view a friend who is ordained as being on the same level as yourself.) One's family goes into a sort of fishbowl for greater scrutiny, and one's time will be consumed with innumerable meetings with local and conference leadership, leading or sitting in on all church and youth functions, preaching, and everything else that goes with it. I would pity the leadership for all that is piled on them, except for the fact that they create it for themselves. So, I would say an ordination is generally more of a sad and tense time than it is a joyful time.

Seems accurate.

[Ernie]

For the Brethren here - are ordinations considered a "joyful" time? In our circles they are a time of much rejoicing.

I'm curious about that question as well. Although being ordained is probably the greatest honor one can be given in the Mennonite church, I think on balance our ordinations are more of a sad than a happy time. I think it's probably a joyful time for leaders because they are bringing in new assistants. But I think it's generally a bit of a sad time for everyone else because the ordained person and his family are aware that it is a huge change and a great responsibility. It might even be a hard time for the ordained person's friends, because their relationship with the ordained person will change. (In our church, the relationship between ordained and laity is sometimes characterized as a parent-child relationship. So it is a little hard to view a friend who is ordained as being on the same level as yourself.) One's family goes into a sort of fishbowl for greater scrutiny, and one's time will be consumed with innumerable meetings with local and conference leadership, leading or sitting in on all church and youth functions, preaching, and everything else that goes with it. I would pity the leadership for all that is piled on them, except for the fact that they create it for themselves. So, I would say an ordination is generally more of a sad and tense time than it is a joyful time.

Yes, in most Mennonite churches, dad will be away from home a lot more and not as available when he is at home. This causes tears for the wife and older children. And friends will no longer be friends.

And then there is the suspense of wanting to know who the lot is going to fall on. The build up of emotion up until the time of the drawing of the lot can push some people over the edge emotionally.

And thirdly, being a minister in some congregations can be quite the thankless job, and the leader may get a lot of criticism, some deserved and some undeserved.

Add all three of these together and there is an immediate loud sniffling and snuffling in many churches as the name of the person to be ordained is announced by the presiding bishop.

[Judas Maccabeus]

For the Brethren here - are ordinations considered a "joyful" time? In our circles they are a time of much rejoicing.

I'm curious about that question as well. Although being ordained is probably the greatest honor one can be given in the Mennonite church, I think on balance our ordinations are more of a sad than a happy time. I think it's probably a joyful time for leaders because they are bringing in new assistants. But I think it's generally a bit of a sad time for everyone else because the ordained person and his family are aware that it is a huge change and a great responsibility. It might even be a hard time for the ordained person's friends, because their relationship with the ordained person will change. (In our church, the relationship between ordained and laity is sometimes characterized as a parent-child relationship. So it is a little hard to view a friend who is ordained as being on the same level as yourself.) One's family goes into a sort of fishbowl for greater scrutiny, and one's time will be consumed with innumerable meetings with local and conference leadership, leading or sitting in on all church and youth functions, preaching, and everything else that goes with it. I would pity the leadership for all that is piled on them, except for the fact that they create it for themselves. So, I would say an ordination is generally more of a sad and tense time than it is a joyful time.

I would say that applies double for the wife of the one chosen in the lot.

[mike]

Yes, in most Mennonite churches, dad will be away from home a lot more and not as available when he is at home. This causes tears for the wife and older children. And friends will no longer be friends.

That's sad. At a bishop ordination in our church, the presiding bishop said in his sermon that the bishop has a lonely position. He encouraged us to make sure to include the bishop in our activities - such as inviting him and his family to go along to the zoo.

I hope he was just speaking for himself; I hope it's not necessarily the case for all bishops and ministers, but I fear it may be. I think it's a really sad state of affairs when they create this kind of position for themselves. I have come to think that the reason for the loneliness and lack of friends is due, among other problems, to being so busy with official tasks that they don't have time to develop normal social relationships. This loneliness and lack of friends can't be helpful when doing pastoral work.