Finding the Balance

Christian ethics and theology with an Anabaptist perspective
MaxPC
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Re: Finding the Balance

Post by MaxPC »

Robert wrote:
MaxPC wrote:When it is time to lead and when is it time to mentor?
Separating the two is not a good thing in my opinion.

Telling me without showing me (living it) does little.
There are different ways of modeling behaviors depending on the culture, Robert. Let's say one person from a fellowship is following Jesus' example of non-resistance by refusing to debate his persecutors. Would that be understood universally among Christians or would there be cultural contexts that would muddy that comprehension?

Cultural contexts also influence personal integrity at many levels. For NMBs, is this a condition that is best approached through mentoring style of brotherhood or a leadership top down approach?
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Max (Plain Catholic)
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Josh
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Re: Finding the Balance

Post by Josh »

Ironically, as soon as the next generation came along, the young women have begun covering at Mass again.
I have yet to see this at any of the Catholic masses I have attended in the last decade.
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Robert
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Re: Finding the Balance

Post by Robert »

MaxPC wrote:Let's say one person from a fellowship is following Jesus' example of non-resistance by refusing to debate his persecutors.
Then he would be misinterpreting what Jesus lived and taught, along with what the Apostles modeled and wrote.

[bible]2 tim 4,1-2[/bible]
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MaxPC
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Re: Finding the Balance

Post by MaxPC »

Robert wrote:
MaxPC wrote:Let's say one person from a fellowship is following Jesus' example of non-resistance by refusing to debate his persecutors.
Then he would be misinterpreting what Jesus lived and taught, along with what the Apostles modeled and wrote.

[bible]2 tim 4,1-2[/bible]
I disagree. Jesus was silent when accused falsely by his persecutors. The exhortation, etc applies to a disciple on an evangelistic mission. But then that's my perspective as a Catholic. YMMV :mrgreen:
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Max (Plain Catholic)
Mt 24:35
Proverbs 18:2 A fool does not delight in understanding but only in revealing his own mind.
1 Corinthians 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is folly with God
Valerie
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Re: Finding the Balance

Post by Valerie »

MaxPC wrote:
Valerie wrote:
MaxPC wrote:This thread has me exploring some thoughts on how the leaders of a fellowship/church can maintain the balance between teaching and application, for example on the Biblical reasons and meaning of the headcovering and modesty.

Clearly some groups drift away from those teachings. Some adhere consistently. What are some balanced approaches to educating the membership on authentic Biblical teachings regarding these topics?
Max this is an interesting question coming from a Catholic Believer- reason being, isn't it true that the Pope has the overall say in such matters? If not, please correct me.

You brought up the headcovering here- when I was at the "Cleveland Right to Life" (basically started by the Catholic Church I think) there were Nuns present- since they still wear a distinct veiling, totally covering their heads and hanging way down, I felt comfortable asking why Catholics women no longer wear a covering when they are going to Church- (I remember when I was young, every Catholic woman did). The Nun replied that it was because the Pope came out in 1978 saying women no longer needed to wear them. I asked her why, and she said because women were protesting it- and you have to chose your battles carefully-

How do you personally feel about that? How would the Pope then, determine a Scriptural practice to be no longer necessary,I think this is staying on topic-
I'll keep this short and simplified instead of writing a textbook in order to avoid distracting from the main theme. There are differing levels of authority in Catholic World. Papal infallibility only kicks in when addressing the immutable non-negotiables such as teachings on God, the Bible, and Core Doctrine. Papal Infallibility is rarely invoked as Core Doctrine is set in stone and very rarely does anyone within the Church debate it.

Beyond that authority is the collegial authority of the Magisterium in which Bishops work together (ideally) to develop teachings that apply the Core Doctrine and traditions within the worldwide Catholic Church. So authority within Catholic World depends upon the category of the content being addressed. If it's a tradition and not Core Doctrine, the collegial approach (mentoring) is the method used. The Pope gives input like the rest of the Bishops.

To sum up, headcovering was not considered Core Doctrine. Ironically, as soon as the next generation came along, the young women have begun covering at Mass again.

Back to the topic: how do Anabaptists find the balance between leadership "pronouncements" and the mentoring of brotherhood?
Thank you Max, this was very interesting- really, I thought my question was 'on topic', sorry- you mentioned headcovering not being 'core' doctrine- I have heard similar thoughts from people, I think that the Orthodox says there's "T" raditions and "t" raditions-

It's good to understand how the Catholic Church operates that way because we read all kinds of speculations, without understanding.
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MaxPC
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Re: Finding the Balance

Post by MaxPC »

Valerie wrote: It's good to understand how the Catholic Church operates that way because we read all kinds of speculations, without understanding.
Indeed, speculations and assumptions. We all know what they're worth.
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Max (Plain Catholic)
Mt 24:35
Proverbs 18:2 A fool does not delight in understanding but only in revealing his own mind.
1 Corinthians 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is folly with God
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Robert
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Re: Finding the Balance

Post by Robert »

MaxPC wrote: I disagree. Jesus was silent when accused falsely by his persecutors. The exhortation, etc applies to a disciple on an evangelistic mission. But then that's my perspective as a Catholic. YMMV :mrgreen:
He was quiet part of one night. The rest of his life, he spoke up and spoke quite freely.

Even on the cross, he spoke up.

He spoke at the garden when they came to arrest him. He spoke to Pilate.

He spoke when they demanded a sign.

He spoke to Satan when tempted.

He spoke to the temple leaders when young.

Jesus spoke up quite often and found ways to respond to honest and misleading questions in quite intriguing ways.

Please show me where he was quiet and did not respond other than the night he was arrested. He actually responded several times that night.
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MaxPC
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Re: Finding the Balance

Post by MaxPC »

Read Jesus' responses carefully, Robert, especially before his judges. He didn't contend nor debate. "Boundaries" means also respecting the opinion of another even if one does not agree: the opposite of that is trying to force a hostile situation to continue without regard for the victim.

That's the Catholic interpretation and since I'm Catholic ...
:mrgreen:
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Max (Plain Catholic)
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Proverbs 18:2 A fool does not delight in understanding but only in revealing his own mind.
1 Corinthians 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is folly with God
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Robert
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Re: Finding the Balance

Post by Robert »

MaxPC wrote:Read Jesus' responses carefully, Robert, especially before his judges.
You just validated my point. He had responses.

Being assertive means you choose how to respond given the situation. He was quiet at times, but those were not the norm. Often, his responses to questions and challenges are what we shape core Christian doctrine from.
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Valerie
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Re: Finding the Balance

Post by Valerie »

MaxPC wrote:Read Jesus' responses carefully, Robert, especially before his judges. He didn't contend nor debate. "Boundaries" means also respecting the opinion of another even if one does not agree: the opposite of that is trying to force a hostile situation to continue without regard for the victim.

That's the Catholic interpretation and since I'm Catholic ...
:mrgreen:
You seem to be the odd one out in all of this but I completely agree with you and understand why you are doing what you are doing (or not doing what you are not doing)- you seem to be able to discern well.
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