ChurchIndex.org

[Ernie]

It would be possible to clarify that this church index is restricted to "conservative" Swiss Brethren background congregations, and then have a separate search for "other" Anabaptists like Apostolic Christians, people from Dutch Mennonite backgrounds (Holdemans, Old Colonists and so forth), and so on.

We are working on these matters, but it may be a few months until we have a plan.

It might be useful to list non-English services as well - lots of people in America, English isn't their first language.

Are you talking about German speaking churches?
I'm not aware of Plain Anabaptist and similar churches in North America that offer something other than German, Spanish, or English. If there are German Speaking churches who are open and friendly toward visitors, we are definitely open to hearing about them.
If there are other languages being offered, please tell us.

In other countries, we will definitely be including the languages included in their meetings.

[Neto]

As far as I know all Plain Anabaptists allow for divorce and remarrying in certain situations. They just draw the lines at different places. By keeping it somewhat vague, it applies to all those who do not allow it in at least some circumstances.

Now I find myself really confused. The Swiss Brethren position I'm familiar with is the one informed by the Amish background of some SB folks, so I realize that is not the whole deal, not totally representative. My understanding of their position is that as long as the first spouse (or, in the case of an earlier widowhood or 'widowerhood', as the case may be, an earlier spouse after all previous spouses have died) is the only valid married partner. So then, there can be no divorce from any other person, because any such 'civil union' entered into is "not a real marriage". By definition, a divorce requires a valid marriage. So they advocate separation from all such unions, because all such relationships are adulterous ones, not marriages. And then, if at all possible, a return to the "real spouse". If that person is unwilling, then a separated, single life is the only recourse. If that spouse is willing to return to the married relationship, then that isn't "remarriage", but rather a restoration of the only marriage in which either person is engaged.

I am, as were my forefathers, always in favor of restoration of marriage relationships. The so-called "exception clause" should only be applied in the most clear cases. However, I freely confess to some contrary thoughts, because who can know that the adulterous spouse will not, at some future point, repent, and return. Only unrepentant till death can provide the final assurance that there will be no repentance. The answer given (as I understand it), is that the persistent and unrepentant adultery has terminated the marriage union, and the divorce proceeding is just a recognition of this (and of course also a legal step in modern societies). While celibacy is not an easy life, married life is not a "guaranteed right" in Scripture. Marriage should not be entered into lightly, and certainly should not be terminated lightly.

As far as my own misgivings go (concerning the exception clause), I think that it is possible that the meaning of the text is that the innocent party is free from the responsibility for the broken marriage relationship, but possibly this freedom does not include remarriage. God often uses the marriage relationship as a picture of His own relationship with His people, and so to sully that symbolism is taken very seriously.

[Neto]

It would be possible to clarify that this church index is restricted to "conservative" Swiss Brethren background congregations, and then have a separate search for "other" Anabaptists like Apostolic Christians, people from Dutch Mennonite backgrounds (Holdemans, Old Colonists and so forth), and so on.

We are working on these matters, but it may be a few months until we have a plan.

It might be useful to list non-English services as well - lots of people in America, English isn't their first language.

Are you talking about German speaking churches?
I'm not aware of Plain Anabaptist and similar churches in North America that offer something other than German, Spanish, or English. If there are German Speaking churches who are open and friendly toward visitors, we are definitely open to hearing about them.
If there are other languages being offered, please tell us.

In other countries, we will definitely be including the languages included in their meetings.

Around 1980 or so there was an openness in the USSR that led to a huge migration of Christians out of the Soviet Empire. Some went to Germany. I know people who are ultimately from Mennonite background who moved there. At the same time, many Ukrainians and Russians came to North America. A group of Russian Baptists affiliated with the Mennonite Brethren conference, although they operate separately to a large degree. They continue their conservative dress, with veiling for the women (thus very different in custom from the rest of the MB conference). So there are many congregations in the Pacific northwest and on down into California that have their services in Ukrainian or Russian. (There are also people with Mennonite background in those congregations, perhaps especially MBs, since the MBs associated freely with the Russian Baptists before the Revolution, and some whole MB congregations later joined with the Russian Baptists. It should be clear that Russian Baptists are not like any of the North American Baptist groups, or they might have joined them instead of the MBs.)

[Josh]

It would be possible to clarify that this church index is restricted to "conservative" Swiss Brethren background congregations, and then have a separate search for "other" Anabaptists like Apostolic Christians, people from Dutch Mennonite backgrounds (Holdemans, Old Colonists and so forth), and so on.

We are working on these matters, but it may be a few months until we have a plan.

It might be useful to list non-English services as well - lots of people in America, English isn't their first language.

Are you talking about German speaking churches?
I'm not aware of Plain Anabaptist and similar churches in North America that offer something other than German, Spanish, or English. If there are German Speaking churches who are open and friendly toward visitors, we are definitely open to hearing about them.
If there are other languages being offered, please tell us.

In other countries, we will definitely be including the languages included in their meetings.

Yes, exactly.

The reason I say this is I now know first hand of multiple seekers who went to a German speaking congregation and were very blessed. One switched to English solely for a seeker.

[Ernie]

It would be possible to clarify that this church index is restricted to "conservative" Swiss Brethren background congregations, and then have a separate search for "other" Anabaptists like Apostolic Christians, people from Dutch Mennonite backgrounds (Holdemans, Old Colonists and so forth), and so on.

We are working on these matters, but it may be a few months until we have a plan.

It might be useful to list non-English services as well - lots of people in America, English isn't their first language.

Are you talking about German speaking churches?
I'm not aware of Plain Anabaptist and similar churches in North America that offer something other than German, Spanish, or English. If there are German Speaking churches who are open and friendly toward visitors, we are definitely open to hearing about them.
If there are other languages being offered, please tell us.

In other countries, we will definitely be including the languages included in their meetings.

Around 1980 or so there was an openness in the USSR that led to a huge migration of Christians out of the Soviet Empire. Some went to Germany. I know people who are ultimately from Mennonite background who moved there. At the same time, many Ukrainians and Russians came to North America. A group of Russian Baptists affiliated with the Mennonite Brethren conference, although they operate separately to a large degree. They continue their conservative dress, with veiling for the women (thus very different in custom from the rest of the MB conference). So there are many congregations in the Pacific northwest and on down into California that have their services in Ukrainian or Russian. (There are also people with Mennonite background in those congregations, perhaps especially MBs, since the MBs associated freely with the Russian Baptists before the Revolution, and some whole MB congregations later joined with the Russian Baptists. It should be clear that Russian Baptists are not like any of the North American Baptist groups, or they might have joined them instead of the MBs.)

So what are you proposing?

[Ernie]

It would be possible to clarify that this church index is restricted to "conservative" Swiss Brethren background congregations, and then have a separate search for "other" Anabaptists like Apostolic Christians, people from Dutch Mennonite backgrounds (Holdemans, Old Colonists and so forth), and so on.

We are working on these matters, but it may be a few months until we have a plan.

It might be useful to list non-English services as well - lots of people in America, English isn't their first language.

Are you talking about German speaking churches?
I'm not aware of Plain Anabaptist and similar churches in North America that offer something other than German, Spanish, or English. If there are German Speaking churches who are open and friendly toward visitors, we are definitely open to hearing about them.
If there are other languages being offered, please tell us.

In other countries, we will definitely be including the languages included in their meetings.

Yes, exactly.

The reason I say this is I now know first hand of multiple seekers who went to a German speaking congregation and were very blessed. One switched to English solely for a seeker.

I had such an experience once myself. I was blessed to hear one of the best sermons of my lifetime. However, to get this, I
needed to inform someone ahead of time that I was coming, and he needed to pick a Sunday when an able English preacher was on schedule. I needed to park in the corn field beside the church because there was no parking place for vehicles. I needed to "walk a gauntlet" of men and women who all stared at me and my English speaking friends, etc., etc. This is not a friendly environment for most seekers. If someone makes a list of congregations that are friendly and respectful of visitors, and what steps one must do to get English preaching at this church, we will be glad to have that on file.

[Neto]

We are working on these matters, but it may be a few months until we have a plan.

Are you talking about German speaking churches?
I'm not aware of Plain Anabaptist and similar churches in North America that offer something other than German, Spanish, or English. If there are German Speaking churches who are open and friendly toward visitors, we are definitely open to hearing about them.
If there are other languages being offered, please tell us.

In other countries, we will definitely be including the languages included in their meetings.

Around 1980 or so there was an openness in the USSR that led to a huge migration of Christians out of the Soviet Empire. Some went to Germany. I know people who are ultimately from Mennonite background who moved there. At the same time, many Ukrainians and Russians came to North America. A group of Russian Baptists affiliated with the Mennonite Brethren conference, although they operate separately to a large degree. They continue their conservative dress, with veiling for the women (thus very different in custom from the rest of the MB conference). So there are many congregations in the Pacific northwest and on down into California that have their services in Ukrainian or Russian. (There are also people with Mennonite background in those congregations, perhaps especially MBs, since the MBs associated freely with the Russian Baptists before the Revolution, and some whole MB congregations later joined with the Russian Baptists. It should be clear that Russian Baptists are not like any of the North American Baptist groups, or they might have joined them instead of the MBs.)

So what are you proposing?

Just a note to mention other languages being spoken in some degree of conservative congregations, languages not mentioned in this thread. I do not know what all sorts of standards they have. Their history is very different than yours, so there might be too many differences for you all to accept. At the time that they joined the MBs, I remarked to my Dad that they had joined the wrong group, thinking that they would have fit in more here. It was not a kind thing to say, but at the time I was too blinded by disappointments in where I saw the MB conference heading to realize that. But while there are similarities to the conservative branches of the Swiss Brethren, there are also differences, the same as with the MB's. It was the common history and experiences that made them feel at ease with the MB conference. I can only hope and pray that the best of their Christian experience and convictions will heal my people, and that my people will be of help to them as well. If I was only responsible for myself (and especially if I could at my age learn either Russian or Ukrainian), I would join them.

[Praxis+Theodicy]

Instead of listing each language, or restricting it to "English or Spanish", it's best to note whether services are conducted "in the peoples' language", which just means the services are conducted in the/a language that is very common in the geographical area. "The people" doesn't refer to the members of the church, but the people in that region of the world.

[Neto]

Instead of listing each language, or restricting it to "English or Spanish", it's best to note whether services are conducted "in the peoples' language", which just means the services are conducted in the/a language that is very common in the geographical area. "The people" doesn't refer to the members of the church, but the people in that region of the world.

In the cases I mentioned, the language used is that of the "displaced people group". (The language of those areas is English, not Russian or Ukrainian.)

[mrbilliam]

This is good but it would be wise if each church would supply some of the standards of the church.

1) Head covering
2) Modesty Standards (just real brief)
3) If they allow internet, filtered internet, and no internet.