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JayP wrote: ↑Thu Jan 04, 2024 8:28 am While I agree no one “owns” the definition of Mennonite, reality should not be ignored
Most liberal Mennonite groups are NOTHING but liberal mainline wish washy Protestants with an emphasis on selective pacifism as opposed to real non resistance.

Not mean, just honest.

Well, to be honest as well, that's the picture I've had of liberal Mennonites all my life. I attended a Lancaster Conference-run elementary school in Lancaster, PA from grades 1-5 which was my introduction to "liberal" Mennonites, although they were pretty conservative compared to today's liberals.

In their defense, they are the ones who never split. If you have a universal negative view of splits, that is to be admired.

barnhart wrote: ↑Thu Jan 04, 2024 9:05 am In their defense, they are the ones who never split. If you have a universal negative view of splits, that is to be admired.

Really. You mean they go clear back to the early church?

Incorrect. We are the ones who never split. (The rest of the church went apostate but 25 remained faithful in New Pittsburg).

Lest you think I jest, we all essentially agree the same thing happened in 1525. The rest of Christendom went apostate, but a handful remained faithful.

Closer to the original topic… Lancaster Conferencr was the biggest conference in mc USA and they departed mc USA. Considering they are biggest, it may be more accurate to say the liberal conferences of mc USA departed them. Lancaster and its affiliates in close fellowship like Evana and other independent conferences are bigger in terms of regular attendance than mc USA is now*.

*this wouldn’t be the case if the silly MC USA - MC Canada division hadn’t taken place.

Josh wrote: ↑Thu Jan 04, 2024 9:25 am *this wouldn’t be the case if the silly MC USA - MC Canada division hadn’t taken place.

People refer to the formation of MCUSA as "the merger" when it was actually both a merger and a split. And has resulted in so many splits and realignments it's not easy to keep track of them all.

ohio jones wrote: ↑Thu Jan 04, 2024 11:15 am

Josh wrote: ↑Thu Jan 04, 2024 9:25 am *this wouldn’t be the case if the silly MC USA - MC Canada division hadn’t taken place.

People refer to the formation of MCUSA as "the merger" when it was actually both a merger and a split. And has resulted in so many splits and realignments it's not easy to keep track of them all.

It’s terribly sad really, all of it.

When I consider how Jesus responded to the slave system in His day, it seems to me that these protests against earthy governments and their decisions was not anything He promoted for His followers to get involved in. Jesus did not say to start up protests on slavery but rather told His followers how they can live pleasing to God in the system they were in.

I believe the solution to sins of all sorts is representing (ambassadors) a different Kingdom in the way we live and our main concern should be where folks will spend eternity and their need for a Saviour.

I don't believe the scriptures support Christians trying to change the unsaved world to be better sinners through earthy ways. Rather we are to share and demonstrate to them a different world (Kingdom) and welcome them to be part of that world.

God's solution to having peace is to focus on how to promote 'the peace that passes all undestanding' which is not through worldly systems. I either see myself as part of the worldly systems by trying to change them by worldly ways or I consider myself as an ambassador (representative) of another world while I'm visiting this one.

I think a major problem is, on the one hand, being so separate from the world we have no eternal influence on them and on the other hand, being so much a part of the world that we get the same result- no eternal influence on them.

Anyway, that is how this whole distorted worldly involvement thing strikes me and I think satan is fine with it as it really doesn't change eternal destinations.