Gospel

Christian ethics and theology with an Anabaptist perspective
NedFlanders
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Re: Gospel

Post by NedFlanders »

Ernie wrote: Thu Dec 07, 2023 8:34 pm
NedFlanders wrote: Thu Dec 07, 2023 8:21 pm
Ernie wrote: Thu Dec 07, 2023 1:50 pm I think the Gospel is all the Good News that Jesus revealed through his teaching and by his life.

John 21:25
"And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written." - John
I agree that all His good news was the Good News but it is important to also bear in mind that Jesus calling Pharisees snakes and vipers wasn’t necessarily “good news.”
I get your point, but wasn't it Good News that these snakes and vipers could become part of Christ's kingdom?
"Romans 2:4 – Or do you despise the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leads you to repentance?"
The last number of years I have thought often about how wonderful it is to be able to repent. What if we sinned and there was never anything we or anyone else could do about it?
With the concept of the two kingdoms this makes senses to me. But with a save me incomplete salvation focused gospel it doesn’t.
Mark 1:15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.
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Psalms 119:2 Blessed are they that keep his testimonies, and that seek him with the whole heart.
barnhart
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Re: Gospel

Post by barnhart »

One aspect of the gospel and evangelization is persuasion. If we are evangelical we persuade people there is good news. When we give up on persuasion, we give up on the gospel.
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Praxis+Theodicy
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Re: Gospel

Post by Praxis+Theodicy »

Okay, here are some of the more interesting insights I found by looking for the word "Gospel" (and related words, such as the verb form "to gospel" or "to preach/announce good news"), and also for the word "Kingdom" (especially as it relates to the Kingdom of God/Kingdom of Heaven).

NOTE: All of this is using the ESV. The only changes I've made was inserting the word "gospel" where the ESV chose to translate the same word as "good news" or "glad tidings".

The Gospel of Mark
Interesting insights:

Mark 1:1 is essentially the "title page" of the document, identifying the entire story that follows as "the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God."

Mark is known for its "speediness", as it rushes through the life of Jesus, even noting everything happening "straightaway". In this fashion, Jesus' ministry of preaching the gospel kicks off after the first chapter is only about 1/3 through:
Mark 1:14-15 wrote:Now after Joh was arrested, Jesus came into Galilee, proclaiming the gospel of God, and saying "The time is fulfilled, and the Kingdom of God is at hand; repent and believe in the gospel.
Somewhere around Mark chapters 8/9 is the center of Mark*. The center of many writings serve as an important highlight of the whole piece. Much like you'd expect, in modern writings, for the introduction to contain a nice summary thesis, or, in an academic paper, even a short "abstract" summarizing the point of the paper, in ancient Hebrew writings, the center of the written text was often used to convey an important point, perhaps even THE point of the written work. You can see this in a lot of Paul's letters, including a sort of "gospel rejoinder" halfway through. Some of the reason for this is that chiastic structuring was more common in their culture than it is in ours. Another reason was that texts were often delivered on scrolls, which were rolled up from either side; opening up a scroll would show the center of the scroll first, so it sometimes served the roll a paper's "abstract" serves today: showing people the these right off the bat. Giving the rabbi something important right away to read in synagogue.
The Center of Mark contains some key events: (1) Peter confessing Jesus as the Christ, (Mark 8:27-30) and (2) Jesus foretelling his death and resurrection (Mark 8:31-9:1).
In the latter narrative, Jesus applies his coming suffering to the crowds, urging them to take up their own cross...
Mark 8:35 wrote:"...For whoever would save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for my sake and the gospel's will save it..."
Jesus ends this address to the crowds by saying:
Mark 9:1 wrote:"Truly, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see the Kingdom of God after it has come with power.
*Note: This is the center of the earliest manuscript of the Gospel According to Mark. Later manuscripts contain additional content about the resurrected Jesus. With this additional content, the center of Mark would fall around Mark 9:30, which is another instance of Jesus foretelling his death and resurrection, but does not contain the words "gospel" or "kingdom".

Mark 10:17-31 contains the story of the rich young man who asks Jesus how he can inherit eternal life (remember that word "inherit," it's important later on).
Jesus names-drops The Kingdom of God three times in quick succession, in verses 23-25:
Mark 10:23-25 wrote:And Jesus looked around and said to his disciples, “How difficult it will be for those who have wealth to enter The Kingdom of God!!” And the disciples were amazed at his words. But Jesus said to them again, “Children, how difficult it is to enter The Kingdom of God! It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter The Kingdom of God.”
Jesus then repeats the theme of sacrificing "for my sake, and the sake of the gospel"
Mark 10:29-30 wrote:Jesus said, “Truly, I say to you, there is no one who has left house or brothers or sisters or mother or father or children or lands, for my sake and for the gospel, who will not receive a hundredfold now in this time, houses and brothers and sisters and mothers and children and lands, with persecutions, and in the age to come eternal life."
Interesting side note: this story of the rich young man, where Jesus talks about the Kingdom and again talks about giving things up "for the sake of the gospel" comes right before the THIRD instance of Jesus predicting his death and resurrection (see previous discussion on Mark chapters 8/9).

Mark 13:10 contains the word "gospel" but nothing about the Kingdom except a couple verses earlier where Jesus mentioned "kingdoms against kingdoms" at the end of the age. The parallel passage in Matthew 24:14, however, ties "the gospel" with "the kingdom" more clearly (more on that later).

Mark 14 contains "the gospel" and "the kingdom of God" but they are not feasibly together in the same passage, being in verse 9 (when the woman anoints Jesus) and verse 25 (when Jesus institutes the meal in remembrance of him):
Mark 14:9 wrote: "truly, wherever the gospel is proclaimed in the whole world, what she has done will be told in memory of her."
Mark 14:9 wrote:"Truly, I say to you, I will not drink again of the fruit of the vine until that day when I drink it new in the kingdom of God."
Finally, Jesus is buried in a tomb belonging to Joseph of Arimathea, a man "who was also himself looking for the kingdom of God." (Mark 15:43). And, in Mark's recording of Jesus' final commission to his disciples, he commands them to "Go into all the world and proclaim the gospel to the whole creation." (Mark 16:15)

--------------------------------------------

That took a lot longer than I thought. I might have to come back and highlight what was in Matthew and Luke. But I can briefly say about the Gospel of John:

The Gospel of John
Interesting insights:
The gospel of John does not contain the word "gospel" anywhere, in noun or verb form.
It does contain talk of "the Kingdom of God", but very rarely. I've heard at least one commentator suggest that the gospel of John talks a lot about "eternal life" as John's own preference for identifying The Kingdom of God. I don't know enough to comment on whether this is accurate or not.

However, The Kingdom is referenced in two instances.
The first is the rooftop discourse with Nicodemus (John 3:1-15). Jesus tries to explain how to enter the Kingdom (verse 3), but Nicodemus just doesn't get it. Jesus tries to explain again (verses 5-8), and Nicodemus still doesn't get it. The third time Jesus explains, he drops the verbiage of "the Kingdom" and does end off saying "eternal life" (verse 15).
John 3:1-15 wrote:1 This man came to Jesus by night and said to him, “Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher come from God, for no one can do these signs that you do unless God is with him.” Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.” Nicodemus said to him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born?” Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You4 must be born again.’ The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.”

9 Nicodemus said to him, “How can these things be?” Jesus answered him, “Are you the teacher of Israel and yet you do not understand these things? Truly, truly, I say to you, we speak of what we know, and bear witness to what we have seen, but you do not receive our testimony. If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how can you believe if I tell you heavenly things? No one has ascended into heaven except he who descended from heaven, the Son of Man. And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up, that whoever believes in him may have eternal life.
The second instance is very interesting. Jesus references the Kingdom while he is being interrogated by Pilate in John chapter 18. The most interesting thing to note here is that Jesus doesn't reference "the kingdom of God" or "the kingdom of heaven" like he does everywhere else, as if the kingdom is the gospel being pronounced, and he (Jesus) is merely a messenger. Instead, three times in this interrogation, Jesus references "my kingdom".
John 18:35-38 wrote:Pilate answered, “Am I a Jew? Your own nation and the chief priests have delivered you over to me. What have you done?” Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world. If my kingdom were of this world, my servants would have been fighting, that I might not be delivered over to the Jews. But my kingdom is not from the world.” Then Pilate said to him, “So you are a king?” Jesus answered, “You say that I am a king. For this purpose I was born and for this purpose I have come into the world—to bear witness to the truth. Everyone who is of the truth listens to my voice.”
Pilate said to him, “What is truth?”
Woah, those are some bold statements. Unlike everywhere else, Jesus isn't just talking about the kingdom as some kind of reality from God. He's identifying himself as King of that kingdom! Remember this for later.
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NedFlanders
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Re: Gospel

Post by NedFlanders »

barnhart wrote: Fri Dec 08, 2023 7:50 am One aspect of the gospel and evangelization is persuasion. If we are evangelical we persuade people there is good news. When we give up on persuasion, we give up on the gospel.
You miss a quote, so here’s some help:
1 Corinthians 9:14 Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.
Living out the Gospel is a way that persuades people, empty words do not.

And since we’ve already looked at Jesus calling the Gospel the kingdom of God:
1 Corinthians 4:20 For the kingdom of God is not in word, but in power.
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barnhart
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Re: Gospel

Post by barnhart »

Exactly. Without lives that are aligned with the gospel, persuasion is not likely.
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NedFlanders
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Re: Gospel

Post by NedFlanders »

We’ve all likely heard that the end will come when the Gospel is preached in all the world. And many have taken a gospel to far reaches. But notice Christ says it is the gospel of the kingdom - that gospel(the gospel of the kingdom) is often not taken like the salvation gospel has…

Matthew 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
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Psalms 119:2 Blessed are they that keep his testimonies, and that seek him with the whole heart.
NedFlanders
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Re: Gospel

Post by NedFlanders »

In this next instance of the word gospel in scripture I could see how someone could think the good news is about Christs death and resurrection because it is.
Matthew 26:13 Verily I say unto you, Wheresoever this gospel shall be preached in the whole world, there shall also this, that this woman hath done, be told for a memorial of her.
But it just isn’t a complete gospel to take one verse without looking at every other verse so far speaking of the gospel of the kingdom.


Here is another mention by Christ of the gospel:
Mark 8:35 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it; but whosoever shall lose his life for my sake and the gospel's, the same shall save it.
If the gospel were “the plan of salvation” it would seem contrary to such teaching as those that teach the gospel is the good news of salvation have never said I had to lose my life to gain it. Rather those that preach the gospel of the kingdom teach something bigger than self, a cause worth giving up self for.
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Psalms 119:2 Blessed are they that keep his testimonies, and that seek him with the whole heart.
Sudsy
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Re: Gospel

Post by Sudsy »

NedFlanders wrote: Fri Dec 15, 2023 7:32 am In this next instance of the word gospel in scripture I could see how someone could think the good news is about Christs death and resurrection because it is.
Matthew 26:13 Verily I say unto you, Wheresoever this gospel shall be preached in the whole world, there shall also this, that this woman hath done, be told for a memorial of her.
But it just isn’t a complete gospel to take one verse without looking at every other verse so far speaking of the gospel of the kingdom.


Here is another mention by Christ of the gospel:
Mark 8:35 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it; but whosoever shall lose his life for my sake and the gospel's, the same shall save it.
If the gospel were “the plan of salvation” it would seem contrary to such teaching as those that teach the gospel is the good news of salvation have never said I had to lose my life to gain it. Rather those that preach the gospel of the kingdom teach something bigger than self, a cause worth giving up self for.
Ned you might find this sight interesting and the additional sites it points to in how these folks explain the Gospel -
https://graceambassadors.com/salvation/ ... -salvation

p.s. Not beliefs JohnHurt would agree with as they have a high regard for Paul's teachings.
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NedFlanders
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Re: Gospel

Post by NedFlanders »

Sudsy wrote: Fri Dec 15, 2023 8:37 am
NedFlanders wrote: Fri Dec 15, 2023 7:32 am In this next instance of the word gospel in scripture I could see how someone could think the good news is about Christs death and resurrection because it is.
Matthew 26:13 Verily I say unto you, Wheresoever this gospel shall be preached in the whole world, there shall also this, that this woman hath done, be told for a memorial of her.
But it just isn’t a complete gospel to take one verse without looking at every other verse so far speaking of the gospel of the kingdom.


Here is another mention by Christ of the gospel:
Mark 8:35 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it; but whosoever shall lose his life for my sake and the gospel's, the same shall save it.
If the gospel were “the plan of salvation” it would seem contrary to such teaching as those that teach the gospel is the good news of salvation have never said I had to lose my life to gain it. Rather those that preach the gospel of the kingdom teach something bigger than self, a cause worth giving up self for.
Ned you might find this sight interesting and the additional sites it points to in how these folks explain the Gospel -
https://graceambassadors.com/salvation/ ... -salvation

p.s. Not beliefs JohnHurt would agree with as they have a high regard for Paul's teachings.
Thanks but it’s just a bunch of manmade doctrine that says about Paul preaching the gospel salvation because more was revealed to him after Christs death.

Teaching like this bothers me because it’s like people forget that Christ is the chief cornerstone and build a new foundation instead of building on Christ. We should believe and know Christ and understand Paul through Him - then we don’t have misunderstandings like your link that disregard Christs teachings.

If you follow scripture and Christs words it is clear that the word gospel relates to a gospel involving the kingdom of God something much deeper than just personal salvation. To then redefine a word later in scripture to mean something different is blasphemous to me. It’s wild misunderstandings like this is why JohnHurt doesn’t like Paul - because so many people have butchered his words and made understandings that contradict Christ…

Jesus’ declared mission:
Luke 4:43 And he said unto them, I must preach the kingdom of God to other cities also: for therefore am I sent.
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Psalms 119:2 Blessed are they that keep his testimonies, and that seek him with the whole heart.
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Bootstrap
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Re: Gospel

Post by Bootstrap »

NedFlanders wrote: Fri Dec 15, 2023 10:39 am Jesus’ declared mission:
Luke 4:43 And he said unto them, I must preach the kingdom of God to other cities also: for therefore am I sent.
Coming our way in January:

https://bibleproject.com/explore/video/ ... in-heaven/
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