'anabaptist' Attitude Toward Adoption

[Josh]

The stats I quoted had nothing to do with adoption. The reason I quoted them was to show that rates of FAS are very low - substantially lower than adoption rates.

The point is that the rates in the general population may not be representative. People do not give children up for adoption at random. It is a highly selective and unrepresentative group of women who do. So the better question is how are those rates reflected in the subset of the population that does give children up for adoption.

I’ll repeat my point: the rate of adoption (2.5%) is much, much higher than the rate of fasd even in the most disadvantaged groups. Therefore fasd is not a good explanation for difficulties adopted children seem to face.

[Verity]

A chart. Shockley had a chart that blacks were descended from toasters. The chart did not make it true.
Come on…..endless arguments about genetics versus environment and this chart answers it all?

I do NOT dispute the issues and risks associated with adoption.
I take issue with this remotely being a proper and effective forum.

If you are some one considerIng adoption, or needed to work with possible adoption issues from any perspective go seek effective resources….somewhere else.

My last comment on the subject.

Thank you JayP. There are many good resources out there that have solid info.
My perspective is that some communities have a very negative opinion from the out start which automatically puts these children at a disadvantage. The questions here did make me stop and think of how many adoptive families I've known in the past. I came up with around 30. More outside the church than within, but roughly half and half. Of those, almost all of those outside anabaptist circles turned out quite well with the exception of one child (out of three adopted in that family) who had a severely traumatic childhood before being adopted and could never bond.
The ones who were reared in Mennonite settings for the most part did not turn out well. Of those who did, they were welcomed into a warm extended family and many cases a welcoming church family. The Eastern families I know who had adopted children that turned out to be nightmares all had serious abuse issues within the home (emotional, physical and sexual). Not all the biological children in those families are doing well either.
I have immense respect and admiration for those who do foster care and adoption. Let's be cautious about repeating all the horror stories. Adoptive families have enough on their shoulders without that burden of negativity.

[Ken]

The stats I quoted had nothing to do with adoption. The reason I quoted them was to show that rates of FAS are very low - substantially lower than adoption rates.

The point is that the rates in the general population may not be representative. People do not give children up for adoption at random. It is a highly selective and unrepresentative group of women who do. So the better question is how are those rates reflected in the subset of the population that does give children up for adoption.

I’ll repeat my point: the rate of adoption (2.5%) is much, much higher than the rate of fasd even in the most disadvantaged groups. Therefore fasd is not a good explanation for difficulties adopted children seem to face.

I would agree with that. It is perhaps a factor and might be more prevalent in adoptees than the general population for various reasons.

So it is probably somewhere on the list of 10 or 20 different factors that account for why adoptees have more difficulty. But it certainly isn't the sole factor or even the most important.

[barnhart]

In a recent podcast Russell Moore, who has several adopted children mentioned that all adoptees need to allowed to mourn their loss. This makes sense to me. No matter how wonderful the adopted family and culture, their story still starts with loss and tragedy.

[RZehr]

In a recent podcast Russell Moore, who has several adopted children mentioned that all adoptees need to allowed to mourn their loss. This makes sense to me. No matter how wonderful the adopted family and culture, their story still starts with loss and tragedy.

This makes sense to me.

[JayP]

I promised myself I would leave this topic alone but I just cannot let potentially dangerous views pass at face value.
There is no need for adoptees to do or face ANYTHING as a blanket statement. Situations are different. To say a child is adopted brings as much consistency to the table as saying “oh, he is German” as though all Germans are the same.

I have no clue what “mourn their loss” means but to me it reeks of the old Gothard attitude that adoptees need to confess their parents sins. There is a religious term for this thinking….Bulldonkey.

I do not doubt that in general adoptions work less well in Mennonite settings. Why wouldn’t it be harder? The constant focus on clan and family impact so many. In addition many of the adoptions we witnessed were higher risk, meaning older children and children fro,abused backgrounds, etc. That some adoptions clearly have higher risks does not mean they should be avoided, but everyone should know the risks and if their life, family situation, church environment brings the qualities MORE likely to handle those situations.

In our case because we had three older children we chose to adopt in birth order and adopted infants. There is no question it was easier from a risk perspective.

What really, really burns me up reading through this thread is if you do not want to adopt…..fine, please do not.
If you are in some position of leadership to others, a minister, a doctor, etc. fine.
But frankly, “I think….” is about as meaningful and factually helpful as many of us expressing opinions on cold fusion.
I openly admit as a well educated and informed person my opinions on cold fusion are pretty worthless.

I do not understand this thread at all. If you have a desire to learn more about adoption, either being an adoptive parent or helping those situations, go find appropriate resources. Random anonymous people on a chat board is not a resource.

Sure, some value in hearing individual stories, but hardly firm foundations.

And remember everything is different….no two situations are the same.
In our case, both of our adopted children (for what it is worth I rarely use the term. I truly have five children), raised ithe same place and four years apart in age view it all completely different. One always dealt with a bit of feeling their birth mother rejected him. It was something he had to work with. It never overwhelming held him back or caused issues, but it was a real feeling. The other never really thinks much about it. His feeling is “I am here. This is where God put me for a reason.” He lives his life from a very practical point of view.

My point being JUST LIKE birth children, same family and same setting, each child is wonderfully unique and different.

[Josh]

Whilst each situation is different, one can confidently state that as a group, “adopted children” are quite different than “natural born children”.

[Verity]

Josh, I object to that statement. Each child is "different" and wonderfully unique. Stereotypes are not okay. This is absolutely no different that saying that that "outsiders" who come in are "quite different" than those who are born into an anabaptist home. For years now folks have been surprised when I tell them I wasn't raised Mennonite- they honestly could not tell. When people have a vague knowledge that one of us has non-Mennonite background, they almost always decide it is my spouse! Statements like this are unfair and can be cruel. Please be careful.

[mike]

Josh, I object to that statement. Each child is "different" and wonderfully unique. Stereotypes are not okay. This is absolutely no different that saying that that "outsiders" who come in are "quite different" than those who are born into an anabaptist home. For years now folks have been surprised when I tell them I wasn't raised Mennonite- they honestly could not tell. When people have a vague knowledge that one of us has non-Mennonite background, they almost always decide it is my spouse! Statements like this are unfair and can be cruel. Please be careful.

Unfortunately, Josh makes these sorts of statements whenever adoption is discussed here on MennoNet. Just be aware this doesn't reflect the views of most (or maybe any) other people here.

[Josh]

Josh, I object to that statement. Each child is "different" and wonderfully unique. Stereotypes are not okay. This is absolutely no different that saying that that "outsiders" who come in are "quite different" than those who are born into an anabaptist home. For years now folks have been surprised when I tell them I wasn't raised Mennonite- they honestly could not tell. When people have a vague knowledge that one of us has non-Mennonite background, they almost always decide it is my spouse! Statements like this are unfair and can be cruel. Please be careful.

Well, seekers (such as myself) and Mennonite background born people actually are different, as groups. I don’t see how it helps to be denial of basic facts like this.