Josh wrote: ↑Mon Dec 04, 2023 11:22 am
I think people who obviously look like Mennonites, act like Mennonites, believe like Mennonites, grew up in a Mennonite family, go to church almost exclusively with other people from ethnic Mennonite backgrounds, etc. should not be dishonest and claim not to be Mennonites. And such discourses like above I don't think are helpful or a good witness.
There is a subgenre of this, which is Charity people who upon meeting them, will tell you "we aren't a Charity church". Nobody except people who actually are Charity churches says this. For example, I'd never describe my church as "not being a Charity church".
For me, it's tedious. And as you mentioned, please own your background, and the individuals were all from Cumberland Valley conference.
I'm confused. Who was from Cumberland Valley Conference?
AndersonD wrote: ↑Mon Dec 04, 2023 10:49 am
Interesting. I was at the airport a few months ago waiting in the lounge and coincidentally a couple of John's members were there also. A lady approached them and asked if they were Mennonites and they gave her a lengthy discourse on why they were not Mennonites. The man kept saying, "No offence taken, but...we're kingdom Christians, and then blah, blah, blah." I learned a lot!
These folks were members of Shippensburg Fellowship?
GaryK wrote: ↑Mon Dec 04, 2023 11:57 am
I think John, and, I'm guessing the rest of the church, consider themselves to be Anabaptist.
Shippensburg Christian Fellowship lists themselves in the CLP directory as unaffiliated Mennonite. John D. Martin is happy to tell people he is Mennonite. Are there folks at Shippensburg who do not call themselves Mennonite?
Chambersburg Christian Fellowship has referred to themselves as "unaffiliated Anabaptist". CLP does not include "unaffiliated Anabaptists" in their directory, hence Chambersburg is not included.
I can imagine some folks at Chambersburg saying they are Kingdom Christian rather than Mennonite.
I appreciate John D. Martin so this little critique is not aimed at him, but I think there is a strain of self disrespect (self hate?) that runs in conservative Mennonites and surfaces from time to time. There is a feeling those who join from "outside" represent a more authentic faith since they traveled further. I've had recommendations of a speaker or book author where the primary resume item was they were not from a Mennonite family. At times there is a sort of elevated respect for those with faith journeys that have dramatic, emotional crisis type born again elements over simple commitment and obedience. I wonder if this is rooted in a failure to articulate our own vision and theology which leaves us feeling inadequate when facing Evangelical faith stories. It's hard to compete with polished radio preachers and glossy magazines who seem to be doing great things for Jesus.
I'm not free from some of this, my own children asked why I make far more effort to find church roles for their friends who are not from Mennonite homes. I had no answer.
So I am not surprised when Mennonites feel they might be more effective by dropping the name Mennonite or down playing a Mennonite background.
Josh wrote: ↑Mon Dec 04, 2023 11:22 am
I think people who obviously look like Mennonites, act like Mennonites, believe like Mennonites, grew up in a Mennonite family, go to church almost exclusively with other people from ethnic Mennonite backgrounds, etc. should not be dishonest and claim not to be Mennonites. And such discourses like above I don't think are helpful or a good witness.
There is a subgenre of this, which is Charity people who upon meeting them, will tell you "we aren't a Charity church". Nobody except people who actually are Charity churches says this. For example, I'd never describe my church as "not being a Charity church".
For me, it's tedious. And as you mentioned, please own your background, and the individuals were all from Cumberland Valley conference.
I'm confused. Who was from Cumberland Valley Conference?
AndersonD wrote: ↑Mon Dec 04, 2023 10:49 am
Interesting. I was at the airport a few months ago waiting in the lounge and coincidentally a couple of John's members were there also. A lady approached them and asked if they were Mennonites and they gave her a lengthy discourse on why they were not Mennonites. The man kept saying, "No offence taken, but...we're kingdom Christians, and then blah, blah, blah." I learned a lot!
These folks were members of Shippensburg Fellowship?
GaryK wrote: ↑Mon Dec 04, 2023 11:57 am
I think John, and, I'm guessing the rest of the church, consider themselves to be Anabaptist.
Shippensburg Christian Fellowship lists themselves in the CLP directory as unaffiliated Mennonite. John D. Martin is happy to tell people he is Mennonite. Are there folks at Shippensburg who do not call themselves Mennonite?
Chambersburg Christian Fellowship has referred to themselves as "unaffiliated Anabaptist". CLP does not include "unaffiliated Anabaptists" in their directory, hence Chambersburg is not included.
I can imagine some folks at Chambersburg saying they are Kingdom Christian rather than Mennonite.
I honestly don't know much about Shippensburg Christian Fellowship and was responding to what was posted about John's members. I was quite sure that John and SCF embrace an Anabaptist worldview. Whether or not they reject the term Mennonite, I don't know.
AndersonD wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2023 5:40 pm
Interesting. I was at the airport a few months ago waiting in the lounge and coincidentally a couple of John's members were there also. A lady approached them and asked if they were Mennonites and they gave her a lengthy discourse on why they were not Mennonites. The man kept saying, "No offence taken, but...we're kingdom Christians, and then blah, blah, blah." I learned a lot!
Ernie wrote: ↑Wed Dec 06, 2023 5:26 pm
These folks were members of Shippensburg Fellowship?
They were either Shippensburg or St Thomas. Originally from Cumberland Valley C.
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Interesting. St. Thomas lists themselves as "unaffiliated Mennonite" as well.
0 x
The old woodcutter spoke again. “It is impossible to talk with you. You always draw conclusions. Life is so vast, yet you judge all of life with one page or one word. You see only a fragment. Unless you know the whole story, how can you judge?"
Signtist wrote: ↑Thu Dec 07, 2023 8:15 amI don't exactly know where we get the idea that all killing is wrong.
As differentiated from the taking of life specifically by Christians, you mean? Or as in lumping all taking of life under the same umbrella, including the death penalty by Rom 13 authority, or...?
“You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not murder; and whoever murders will be liable to judgment.’ But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother will be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother will be liable to the council; and whoever says, ‘You fool!’ will be liable to the hell of fire.
In bibleref.com it points out that 'God's intent behind the sixth commandment goes far beyond "just" not killing people. It's meant to be applied at the deepest levels of our thoughts and feelings toward every single person.'
So, one could ask can one still be a Christian if they kill someone with their thoughts and words by insulting a brother such as calling them a fool or something equivalent ? Are we, at times, guilty of saying things to each other that God recognizes as murder/killing a brother ?