ABC 123 wrote: ↑Sat Dec 02, 2023 7:47 am
NedFlanders wrote: ↑Sat Dec 02, 2023 1:31 am
No.
A Christian is someone who is born again and Jesus tells us in John 3 that someone who is born again (a Christian) will see and enter into the kingdom of God. If they cannot see that, merely by participating in those professions without killing someone that they are working for an opposing kingdom it is reasonable, albeit with great sadness, to doubt whether they can see the kingdom of God. I wouldn’t be quick to call them not a Christian exactly but it would give great concern to pray for them and encourage them in a closer walk with Christ.
If your wife or child was being held at gunpoint by a wicked man with evil intent, I take it you would not call 911? You would ask a person to forfeit their soul to save your family member? (Following your reasoning.)
Oddly enough, Scripture answers your questions.
Act 23:16 And when Paul's sister's son heard of their lying in wait, he went and entered into the castle, and told Paul.
Act 23:17 Then Paul called one of the centurions unto him, and said, Bring this young man unto the chief captain: for he hath a certain thing to tell him.
Act 23:18 So he took him, and brought him to the chief captain, and said, Paul the prisoner called me unto him, and prayed me to bring this young man unto thee, who hath something to say unto thee.
Act 23:19 Then the chief captain took him by the hand, and went with him aside privately, and asked him, What is that thou hast to tell me?
Act 23:20 And he said, The Jews have agreed to desire thee that thou wouldest bring down Paul to morrow into the council, as though they would enquire somewhat of him more perfectly.
Act 23:21 But do not thou yield unto them: for there lie in wait for him of them more than forty men, which have bound themselves with an oath, that they will neither eat nor drink till they have killed him: and now are they ready, looking for a promise from thee.
Act 23:22 So the chief captain then let the young man depart, and charged him, See thou tell no man that thou hast shewed these things to me.
This captain is not said to be Christian nor does Paul hesitate to involve them for his own life.
Yet we are told quite plainly
2Co 10:2 But I beseech you, that I may not be bold when I am present with that confidence, wherewith I think to be bold against some, which think of us as if we walked according to the flesh.
2Co 10:3 For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh:
2Co 10:4 (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;)
Some walked according to the flesh and were told quite plainly we don’t war like fleshly.
We are given far stronger weapons and those who understand spiritual, know there are greater powers at work then a mere bullet and rifle. Thus addressing the man holding them doesn’t address the powers involved.
Rom 8:36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
How much more should we resist those who attack us for our belief then a mere robber yet we are told that instead, we are sacrifice.
I don’t expect you to agree, but Anabaptists aside from the Munster group, do not wage war.
Schleitheim Confession
Finally it will be observed that it is not appropriate for a Christian to serve as a magistrate because of these points: The government magistracy is according to the flesh, but the Christian's is according to the Spirit; their houses and dwelling remain in this world, but the Christian's are in heaven; their citizenship is in this world, but the Christian's citizenship is in heaven; the weapons of their conflict and war are carnal and against the flesh only, but the Christian's weapons are spiritual, against the fortification of the devil. The worldlings are armed with steel and iron, but the Christians are armed with the armor of God, with truth, righteousness, peace, faith, salvation and the Word of God. In brief, as in the mind of God toward us, so shall the mind of the members of the body of Christ be through Him in all things, that there may be no schism in the body through which it would be destroyed. For every kingdom divided against itself will be destroyed. Now since Christ is as it is written of Him, His members must also be the same, that His body may remain complete and united to its own advancement and upbuilding.
As regards revenge, and opposing the enemy with weapons, we believe and confess that the Lord Christ forbade and set aside for his disciples and followers all revenge and retaliation, and to the contrary commanded them to avenge no one?s evil with evil, or invective with invective, but to put the sword into its sheath, or, as the prophets prophesied, to beat swords into plowshares (Mt. 5:39, 44; Rom. 12:14; 1 Pet. 3:9; Isa. 2:4; [Mic. 4:3; Zech. 9:8-9]).
From this we understand that in order to follow his example, teaching and life, we therefore dare not offend or spite or harm anyone, but much rather should work in appropriate ways for the highest welfare and salvation of all persons; and, if conditions so demand, to flee for the Lord?s sake from one city or country into another-but harming no one, even when suffering the confiscation of property; and when we are beaten, to turn the other cheek, rather than taking revenge or striking back;
And, moreover, that we are to pray for our enemies, and if they are hungry or thirsty, feed and refresh them, in this manner persuading them with kindness, and so, conquering all ignorance (Mt. 5:39; Rom. 12: 19-21; [1 Pet. 2: 15]): For a person mindful of God finds grace, who, for the sake of conscience endures the throes of evil and suffers unjustly;
Finally, that we are to do good, and commend ourselves in a friendly manner to the conscience of every person, and, according to the law of Christ, do nothing to anyone else than what we would want done to ourselves (Mt. 7:12; [2 Cor. 4:21).
Dordrecht confession.
To do otherwise would leave not only the historic Anabaptist belief, but I stand by this, the very word of our Lord Himself.
None of this necessarily answers for those who are ignorant of this truth, but you rejected it.
