Conservative to progressive....

[Josh]

and so they moved from ultra conservative to resembling to me the early church in some ways (and for Sufsy, they DO lift up Holy hands

Are they practicing a community of goods, selling property and giving to any as has need?

Are signs and wonders including miraculous healing happening?

Have 5,000 been converted and baptised on a single day?

Have they spoken in other languages, with foreigners hearing the gospel message in their own language?

[ohio jones]

Thankfully the ancient Orthodox Church taught us gifts did not die out when Apistles died- but they don't put a lot of emphasis on them at all. We so have the emphasis of 1 Corinthians 13.

I would agree with them on this.

[Sudsy]

In Anabaptism and in most, if not all, faith groups it isn't too hard to see 'cherry-picking' going on. Those who think their group is more NT based than others are especially known among the 'conservative' groups, imo. I was once a deacon in a Baptist church that went very actively evangelical and we renamed the church 'The New Testament Church in the Twentieth Century'. This was quite a joke to some Pentecostals and others who could easily point out where our church did not resemble NT teachings, especially those written to tuhe church in Corinth.

I find it interesting when some groups say they still believe the supernatural spiritual gifts are still possible, yet don't seek after them as the scripture says we should. Why is this not seen as being disobedient ? Do we think God does not operate now in the supernatural and if He doesn't how do we understand salvation ? Is it just a matter of joining a church and doing what is required to stay a member or are we living a supernatural way of life as we are guided by the Holy Spirit ?

Seems to me today we have a form of religion, as did the Pharisees in Jesus time on earth, but our relationship with God has little supernatural in it. Myself, if I knew of a church that was operating in spiritual gifts as they were to function according to the NT, I would be there. Perhaps we have so grieved the Holy Spirit with our disregard for the important role He is in our Christ following, that we have quenched the fire of the Spirit and are operating in most ways in the natural and are experiencing very little, if anything, supernatural.

Well, I think I've wandered off the topic again but it is one I would love to discuss with those interested on a new thread. I wonder what churches represented here are preaching the NT command to earnestly desire spiritual gifts and are getting teachings on them ? From what I read here, few, if any. Am I wrong ?

[Josh]

I find it interesting how Pentecostal groups claim to want to do what we saw in Acts yet conveniently never engage in a common purse like Acts 2 & 4. This is part of why I simply don’t take their doctrine or theology seriously.

[Sudsy]

I find it interesting how Pentecostal groups claim to want to do what we saw in Acts yet conveniently never engage in a common purse like Acts 2 & 4. This is part of why I simply don’t take their doctrine or theology seriously.

Josh, I have removed you from my 'foes' list to try to read and respond to your posts in a better way than I had in some past posts, so here goes -

I agree that Pentecostal groups also 'cherry pick' when it comes to being NT followers. I haven't yet found any group of believers yet that follow NT teachings and practise exactly as they are written and I doubt any exist. When it comes to whether or not a 'progressive' or 'conservative' church is closer to what Jesus expects of us today in our settings, I also have my questions.

I do believe some things were written to churches in that setting in that time and place and not meant for every church from that day forward. Most groups think they are Spirit directed in how they believe and practise Christianity. But who really are Spirit guided ? How can this be judged ? Could it be that we all only 'know in part' and God is creating His Church based on what He determines is saving faith and what is not ? My guess is that we all might be in for some big surprises someday when we see who God has accepted and who not.

His Church will be one 'without spot or wrinkle'. I don't see any that then would qualify as knowing and practicing perfect doctrine but rather those who, through Jesus, are viewed by God to be pure in His sight.

Any thoughts on this ? Anyone ?

[Valerie]

I find it interesting how Pentecostal groups claim to want to do what we saw in Acts yet conveniently never engage in a common purse like Acts 2 & 4. This is part of why I simply don’t take their doctrine or theology seriously.

Your experience with Pentecostals is limited. You cannot possibly speak for them all.

The "common purse" in Acts had largely to do with the grievous situation early Christians were facing, particularly converted Jews.

A common puse so to speak in the Pentecostal "rupe" churchvwe were members of was mostly covered in tithes and offerings. No one had ro suffer hardship without help in our church. Furthermore, as the Church formed small groups, then each small group becoming aware of someone's needs were to cover it as a group.

Who could possibly claim to know how every church operates? That would be a sign to me that someone does an awful lot of ungrounded assuming.

[Josh]

Who could possibly claim to know how every church operates? That would be a sign to me that someone does an awful lot of ungrounded assuming.

I can state confidently that as a rule Pentecostals do not practice a common purse.

[Ernie]

every single Amish and Mennonite person has already experienced baptism of the Holy Spirit

What????

[Soloist]

every single Amish and Mennonite person has already experienced baptism of the Holy Spirit

What????

I also have to disagree. Utter nonsense unless taking a bath like a baby also gives you the Holy spirit. Being an adult/mature child is not all that is required.

[Josh]

every single Amish and Mennonite person has already experienced baptism of the Holy Spirit

What????

Acts 2:38:

Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

The Bible makes it clear every baptised person (legitimately repents and is baptised, obviously) receives the gift of the Holy Ghost.

The Wesleyan Holiness doctrine is baptism of the Holy Ghost somehow happens at a different point in time than salvation or water baptism. I don’t see this doctrine in scripture anywhere.

I find it really offensive to go around claiming Mennonites and Amish aren’t baptised in the Holy Spirit because they don’t babble nonsense in church services.