Conservative to progressive....

[Valerie]

Are you sure??

Yes. I spent my age 13 going to meetings 5 or 6 nights a week with my family, and then took regular “pilgrimages” up to Toronto every few months.

Where we were around forc4 decades- those wield manifestations in some Vineyard Chirches were not accepted when discerning of spirits. OF Course Satan will raise his iugly head in spiritual gifts. How obvious can he be to then try to eliminate the gifts if the Spirit. See how the Church then becomes denying of authentic? Are we not aware of his schemes? It didn't work with Moses & Pharoes counterfeiting- it shouldn't work now to deny the truth about spiritual gifts.

I believe the “truth” about spiritual gifts is what is taught in the Bible and I think the place to start is the fruits of the spirit.

As far as Baptism of the Holy Spirit as a second work, you were led to other parts of Acts about this which you don't seem to answer or acknowledge. We know in part. However, Paul encouraged us to desire Spiritual gifts so don't let counterfeit dismiss the real. Don't deny the Spirits many facets.

The simple fact is that people don’t get born again two times, despite what Wesleyan Holiness people ran around the country saying. I believe Acts 2:38 is true. And I think you need to acknowledge that every sincerely baptised person who has truly believed and repented (which is most Anabaptist churchgoers and dare I say most evangelicals too) is already filled with the Spirit.

The fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, kindness, gentleness, self control… not babbling nonsense.

With that said I respect the ACTUAL fruit of the Spirit I see from Pentecostals and charismatics. I really respect how Bethel Church has completely transformed Redding and Shasta County. And the Oneness Pentecostals have led many young people to Christ in my town and their youth services are burgeoning so much they’re having to expand their building. Those are the fruits that are important.

You seem to be confused about some things and I don't think presently that can be straightened out.
Probably best not to argue. I cannot relate at all to your experiences. I would have probably run too. Fruits and gifts both Scriptural, both encouraged. I simply have seen it exist in order and if former Amish &Menno it's have embraced BOTH the gifts and show the fruit and are in order than stop being so vehemently critical. There are better ways to spend your time.

[Valerie]

I wasn’t talking about Oneness Pentecostals.

I was talking about the groups I grew up around (basically AOG) that taught getting filled with the spirit is somehow different than being born again and baptised. And that the evidence is speaking in tongues. (Those particular churches have changed to claiming other “manifestations” like “holy laughter”, roaring/barking, shaking uncontrollably, and so forth, for example as happened during the “Toronto Blessing”).

The same sorts of things happened with George Whitfield and people called it revival then and now.

At most outdoor meetings from 1740-1742, the noise was so loud in the audience that Whitefield says he could hardly hear himself speaking. In his memoirs, Whitefield and others describe the noises as “roarings, agonies, screamings, tremblings, ravings, and even barking like dogs”.
John Wesley wrote to Whitefield, “You know that a lot of this is of the flesh.”
“Yes.” Whitefield admitted.
“Then stamp out what is false,” John Wesley replied.
Whitefield replied. “If you stamp out what is of the flesh, you will kill what is real.”

So those is why people ate afraid and abstain. There is seemingly poir leadership in such a situation. The first time I was in a service with tongues I was afraid because I didn't have the understanding yet. Was a baby Christian. One taught properly I saw it differently. Having seen the body efified in an atmosphere of order I saw the benefits of the Holy Spirit at work. I find I can miss that in a congregation that lacks that faith but yet I can appreciate all else that is a blessing and glory to the Lord.

[Sudsy]

The belief I grew up under is that there is the indwelling of the Holy Spirit when one is born again. The filling of the Spirit is a repeated experience in the believer, after being saved, as described in Eph 5:18. It was emphasized in my youth that these 'fillings' were very important to be able to live a life in the supernatural realm of the Spirit that includes one or more spiritual gifts as well as living reflecting the fruit of the Spirit. So, those who initially repented of their sin and were born again would often be prayed with to receive an initial filling which was believed to be evident when they first spoke in an unknown tongue. This was the Pentecostal belief I was raised in.

[Josh]

You seem to be confused about some things and I don't think presently that can be straightened out.
Probably best not to argue. I cannot relate at all to your experiences. I would have probably run too. Fruits and gifts both Scriptural, both encouraged. I simply have seen it exist in order and if former Amish &Menno it's have embraced BOTH the gifts and show the fruit and are in order than stop being so vehemently critical. There are better ways to spend your time.

Some former Amish embrace the JWs or Mormonism. That doesn’t make me somehow I think a movement is more credible.

Perhaps you can think of me as a “former Pentecostal”. There are very good reasons for the criticism I have.

[Sudsy]

With regard to moving from 'conservative' to 'progressive' or 'progressive' to 'conservative', as is understood here, I believe we can get a resentful and/or destructive spirit in us that is not Holy Spirit guided when we make these transitions. I remember when I first left Pentecostalism, it was easy for me to join others in pointing out the flaws we thought were in Pentecostalism and their practises. And I hear others too that hold unto grudges of their past church experiences. These can be big hindrances to moving forward spiritually.

I believe scriptures tell us to set our focus ahead so we don't get bogged down with past bad experiences and/or where others are in the race. Paul likens it to running a race and keeping our eye on the goal. Many a race has been lost by a runner looking over their shoulder to see where others are in the race. Paul was determined to not live in the past but to focus on the end goal.

Any thoughts on this ?

[ohio jones]

You seem to be confused about some things and I don't think presently that can be straightened out.

Is it respectful to call someone with different opinions and experiences "confused"? I don't see confusion in Josh's posts, just a lack of agreement with your perspective.

The first time I was in a service with tongues I was afraid because I didn't have the understanding yet.

Do you mean "I didn't understand what was going on" or "I didn't have The Understanding yet"? The tone of the statement is a little ambiguous.

[Valerie]

You seem to be confused about some things and I don't think presently that can be straightened out.

Is it respectful to call someone with different opinions and experiences "confused"? I don't see confusion in Josh's posts, just a lack of agreement with your perspective.

The first time I was in a service with tongues I was afraid because I didn't have the understanding yet.

Do you mean "I didn't understand what was going on" or "I didn't have The Understanding yet"? The tone of the statement is a little ambiguous.

I'm sorry if I seemed disrespectful. I find it strange you have not called Josh out on his disrespect but I understand why. I am not the only one however that sees Josh's understandingbof all this he's bashing as nor thoroughly understanding it. He's just dead said against it so keeps bashing. However "he" is the one who brought up and singled out tongues.

I meant as a baby Christian when I first heard tongues I did not have the understanding yet that Scripture teaches.

[steve-in-kville]

Not sure why I bother anymore...

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