Loans to church Brothers and/or Sisters - not being repayed?

Christian ethics and theology with an Anabaptist perspective
Hats Off
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Re: Loans to church Brothers and/or Sisters - not being repayed?

Post by Hats Off »

I think there is much value in what Valerie has to say here. There is also a question of stewardship and the matter of other things in life that you are responsible for. If you have the financial ability to help the person and feel the scriptures ask that you do help, then you won't have peace until you do. But remember also that today if you give to everyone that asks, as much as they ask for, you will eventually need to ask for help yourself.
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Wade
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Re: Loans to church Brothers and/or Sisters - not being repayed?

Post by Wade »

It might be good to ask yourself why is this person asking you?

About a year ago my sister started asking us to babysit her 1 and 2 year old(at that time). Mostly it was once a week or some times twice a week (for half a day). It would happen usually when I was at work and so my wife had to care for (at that time) our 9,7,5,3, and 1 year olds plus now these two more children.
We talked about whether it was right for us to help enable my sister to work and play sports instead of watch her children. And especially since she is not a Christian it seemed like she would just find others to babysit if we didn't anyway. Her and her husband were also saving money then as they do have another paid babysitter...
This went on for a few months. Finally when we announced a bit into the pregnancy that we were expecting, then my sister felt guilty for us watching her children because she knows my wife gets very bad morning sickness. She hasn't asked us again realizing it was a bit much to ask...
We never wanted her to feel bad and wouldn't plan something like that, but we did talk and pray about it and felt we should watch their children.

The point is where does your abundance go and where does your need go?
If a brother in Christ has more than you or does vacationing on borrowed money and is implying/asking to borrow more from you, is he getting the impression that you have lots of abundance? And why would he?
Giving out of one's needs to another's wants should convict the Christian if he is the reciever...

Maybe your not giving that impression but that is at least this is what I would ask myself.
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Wayne in Maine
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Re: Loans to church Brothers and/or Sisters - not being repayed?

Post by Wayne in Maine »

Chris wrote:Okay, these are all good points. Going off a strict biblical perspective though we are commanded to lend money to those who ask, lend without expecting to be repaid, and not asking for the money back if loaned!

To follow the Bible seems very hard as anybody could come take any bit of money away from another person if taken literally. Were loans in Biblical days TAKEN for WAY different things than today? I could understand that if a brother needed to borrow money for food to lend and not expect repayment. But today people will borrow money for a lot of things, even quasi necessities (I want a bit of a better home or car than the other choice) and then we see them on vacations later!

Are we supposed to lend PERIOD and never expect it back and never ask for it back? The scriptures from a fairly strong viewpoint allude to this.... Need advice definitely. Thanks!
I don't know why we should not take Jesus literally in this case. If we have the money to lend and do not need it ourselves then why should we not let it go? If it is used wrongfully, or if the borrower abuses the act of charity on our part the sin is on them not us, and it is a matter for the church to deal with.
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mike
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Re: Loans to church Brothers and/or Sisters - not being repayed?

Post by mike »

Wayne in Maine wrote:I don't know why we should not take Jesus literally in this case. If we have the money to lend and do not need it ourselves then why should we not let it go? If it is used wrongfully, or if the borrower abuses the act of charity on our part the sin is on them not us, and it is a matter for the church to deal with.
I agree at least in the case of personal loans. If the borrower fails to keep their promise to repay, do you feel that this is a matter a church should deal with?
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Josh
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Re: Loans to church Brothers and/or Sisters - not being repayed?

Post by Josh »

mike wrote:
Wayne in Maine wrote:I don't know why we should not take Jesus literally in this case. If we have the money to lend and do not need it ourselves then why should we not let it go? If it is used wrongfully, or if the borrower abuses the act of charity on our part the sin is on them not us, and it is a matter for the church to deal with.
I agree at least in the case of personal loans. If the borrower fails to keep their promise to repay, do you feel that this is a matter a church should deal with?
The church should appoint a committee and help him manage his finances. If he refuses to submit eventually it's time for discipline.

I have seen this process work well. I have seen putting this process off means a brother destroys his business and his wife ends up working to feed the kids.
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lesterb
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Re: Loans to church Brothers and/or Sisters - not being repayed?

Post by lesterb »

Chris wrote:The same side of me is watching this individual go on several vacations, dinners out to eat nearly 3-4 times a week, Starbucks, and buying many moderately costly better of the line electronics than just "make do" electronics.... I guess I'm watching somebody doing something I would NEVER do if I owed.
More money isn't going to help this person.

[bible]pro 22,7[/bible]
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Neto
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Re: Loans to church Brothers and/or Sisters - not being repayed?

Post by Neto »

What about as a business man, selling a product or a service to a fellow believer, who then does not choose to pay the bill?
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Josh
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Re: Loans to church Brothers and/or Sisters - not being repayed?

Post by Josh »

Neto wrote:What about as a business man, selling a product or a service to a fellow believer, who then does not choose to pay the bill?
When any of you has a legal dispute with another, does he dare go to court before the unrighteous rather than before the saints? Or do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if the world is to be judged by you, are you not competent to settle trivial suits? Do you not know that we will judge angels? Why not ordinary matters! So if you have ordinary lawsuits, do you appoint as judges those who have no standing in the church? I say this to your shame! Is there no one among you wise enough to settle disputes between fellow Christians? Instead, does a Christian sue a Christian, and do this before unbelievers? The fact that you have lawsuits among yourselves demonstrates that you have already been defeated. Why not rather be wronged? Why not rather be cheated? But you yourselves wrong and cheat, and you do this to your brothers and sisters!
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Wayne in Maine
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Re: Loans to church Brothers and/or Sisters - not being repayed?

Post by Wayne in Maine »

mike wrote:
Wayne in Maine wrote:I don't know why we should not take Jesus literally in this case. If we have the money to lend and do not need it ourselves then why should we not let it go? If it is used wrongfully, or if the borrower abuses the act of charity on our part the sin is on them not us, and it is a matter for the church to deal with.
I agree at least in the case of personal loans. If the borrower fails to keep their promise to repay, do you feel that this is a matter a church should deal with?
If the lender agreed to pay it back and did not in spite of having the wherewithal to do so, then this is a Matthew 19 case.
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Josh
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Re: Loans to church Brothers and/or Sisters - not being repayed?

Post by Josh »

The church should have men of good repute - perhaps ordained men, or else men qualified to be ordained, who can judge fairly when brethren have a dispute with one another. Each brother's attitude must be that he is willing to be walk away being wronged, and to forgive the debt, if it does not go in his favour.

Of course, all of this is useless if the church is not willing to enact discipline against a repeat offender. Unfortunately, that does mean closely watching someone's life and ensuring they really do make things right, and also being willing to excommunicate them if they repeatedly ignore church leaders or do the same misdeeds over and over.
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