Loans to church Brothers and/or Sisters - not being repayed?

Christian ethics and theology with an Anabaptist perspective
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Chris
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Loans to church Brothers and/or Sisters - not being repayed?

Post by Chris »

I'm in a crux of what to do. The Bible states in Luke 6:31-36 to lend even without expecting repayment.

Perhaps it's my own spiritual problem. I've lent to somebody in church some money and have not been repaid. Swirls of thoughts go around this one such as "Well in the Bible days money lending must have been for much more critical things such as food/taxes/etc." and those lending issues are not the same for today"... Anyway that is what my "brain" is telling me.

The same side of me is watching this individual go on several vacations, dinners out to eat nearly 3-4 times a week, Starbucks, and buying many moderately costly better of the line electronics than just "make do" electronics.... I guess I'm watching somebody doing something I would NEVER do if I owed.

For me if I owed a brother or sister in Christ, I would never ever skip a payment. In fact, I would probably reduce several meals a week to a rice/bean meal so that I'd be sure to repay quicker than expected. I just can't believe this actually happens in a church where honesty, integrity, and most of all Jesus Christ is preached.

I know what the Bible says. Perhaps it's my spirit warring with my members and the members want the $ back. I knew I could lose the money on a handshake deal like that. I was expecting it.... But I'm honestly a bit shocked that a church member could behave like this. It's not just "tardy" on the loan but blatent non-repayment.

So what do I do? I'm probably sure the response is to forgive (easier said than done) and I know that is what my Christian heart tells me to do. How do I not feel animosity for this person? How do I not have this "smudge" of a feeling in their presence forever? Can anybody relate, counsel, or suggest advice?

Also this person is hinting at another loan.... What would you do?
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Soloist
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Re: Loans to church Brothers and/or Sisters - not being repayed?

Post by Soloist »

ask the church for direction on future loans. Don't ask for repayment in regard to what the scriptures state.
I can understand, we gave money to someone not expecting it back but hoping it would help (jobless) but they still ended up defaulting on paying rent a second time and we had told her we would only help once.
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Hats Off
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Re: Loans to church Brothers and/or Sisters - not being repayed?

Post by Hats Off »

In our farming community there was a saying "Don't lend money to someone whose front tractor tires are larger than your rear tractor tires." Or in other words, don't lend to someone who is living richer than you are. If he is asking again, I would remind him that the first loan had not yet been repaid.

if we can take the attitude that a sister-in-law did the one time that I borrowed money from them, we will be fine. Her husband asked "But what if he can't repay?" She answered "Then it is as though we never had the money." It is a tough situation you describe especially if your financial situation is not great. If you can take the approach that "he just doesn't know better" it may be easier to forgive the debt.
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Josh
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Re: Loans to church Brothers and/or Sisters - not being repayed?

Post by Josh »

I would offer to meet with the person the next time they ask about another loan, and then offer to connect them with resources to help with finances. I would offer to attend a Dave Ramsey financial peace seminar with them. I would offer to cover half the cost of materials and have them cover the rest (the total is $109 for the work book, the 9 weeks of classes themselves are free.)

If the person refuses, then let them know the offer is on the table if they change their mind.

If you continue to encounter this person socially, next time you have a financial need, just let them know you need some help and give them a chance to take care of it.
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Haystack
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Re: Loans to church Brothers and/or Sisters - not being repayed?

Post by Haystack »

I would describe your situation as very common as I hear about these types of things fairly frequently. Sometimes if people are in debt and reach out for support, the sudden change in circumstances of their financial problems puts them in a false state of mind. In other words, yes they are out of the hole they were in, only to forget about the new hole they dug borrowing from a brother. Because they believe their out of the hole, they might feel the need to "reward" their-self and often times buy things they might not need or go on vacation. It might be difficult, but I would have a talk with them and explain things from your prospective. If I was careless with my finances, I would want a brother to talk some sense into me.
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Josh
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Re: Loans to church Brothers and/or Sisters - not being repayed?

Post by Josh »

If someone is in deep financial straits (even if due to being a poor financial manager) then sometimes I just try to do something nice for them; I've been a person in those shoes before and you get in a mindset where you feel absolutely guilty anytime you buy anything. It's a terrible death spiral to be in, and you often end up only making purchases that are impulse purchases. It's sort of like being an overweight person who overeats or stress-eats: a kind thing to do with them would be to invite them over for a good, wholesome meal.

Of course, if someone can't admit they have a problem then they are hard to work with. Maybe they have a deeper spiritual need than money, and you can meet that?
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Chris
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Re: Loans to church Brothers and/or Sisters - not being repayed?

Post by Chris »

Okay, these are all good points. Going off a strict biblical perspective though we are commanded to lend money to those who ask, lend without expecting to be repaid, and not asking for the money back if loaned!

To follow the Bible seems very hard as anybody could come take any bit of money away from another person if taken literally. Were loans in Biblical days TAKEN for WAY different things than today? I could understand that if a brother needed to borrow money for food to lend and not expect repayment. But today people will borrow money for a lot of things, even quasi necessities (I want a bit of a better home or car than the other choice) and then we see them on vacations later!

Are we supposed to lend PERIOD and never expect it back and never ask for it back? The scriptures from a fairly strong viewpoint allude to this.... Need advice definitely. Thanks!
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Haystack
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Re: Loans to church Brothers and/or Sisters - not being repayed?

Post by Haystack »

Chris wrote:Okay, these are all good points. Going off a strict biblical perspective though we are commanded to lend money to those who ask, lend without expecting to be repaid, and not asking for the money back if loaned!

To follow the Bible seems very hard as anybody could come take any bit of money away from another person if taken literally. Were loans in Biblical days TAKEN for WAY different things than today? I could understand that if a brother needed to borrow money for food to lend and not expect repayment. But today people will borrow money for a lot of things, even quasi necessities (I want a bit of a better home or car than the other choice) and then we see them on vacations later!

Are we supposed to lend PERIOD and never expect it back and never ask for it back? The scriptures from a fairly strong viewpoint allude to this.... Need advice definitely. Thanks!
There's been times where it's obvious someone was in a bad situation and I've given them money not expecting repayment, but there's been other times I've gotten the feeling that the request wasn't sincere, and they were just looking for a handout to waste on sin. If we always lent money to those who ask, and there was no line drawn, we soon wouldn't have any money left to lend. In your case I would feel good about lending the money, even if it wasn't used how it should have been, you're building your kingdom and perhaps one day if you're short on money that same brother will help you out.
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Re: Loans to church Brothers and/or Sisters - not being repayed?

Post by Valerie »

Chris wrote:Okay, these are all good points. Going off a strict biblical perspective though we are commanded to lend money to those who ask, lend without expecting to be repaid, and not asking for the money back if loaned!

To follow the Bible seems very hard as anybody could come take any bit of money away from another person if taken literally. Were loans in Biblical days TAKEN for WAY different things than today? I could understand that if a brother needed to borrow money for food to lend and not expect repayment. But today people will borrow money for a lot of things, even quasi necessities (I want a bit of a better home or car than the other choice) and then we see them on vacations later!

Are we supposed to lend PERIOD and never expect it back and never ask for it back? The scriptures from a fairly strong viewpoint allude to this.... Need advice definitely. Thanks!
I think you are asking a good question- looking at the passage in context- and considering 'those' days verses 'these' days and WHY a person needs help. I think some spiritual wisdom needs to be in play here- if the person asking for the loan has a 'stronghold' of spending frivolously then helping them stay in this stronghold, only enables them. The reason I say this, having served in a ministry several years called "Overcoming Strongholds", which was a ministry to help anyone, with ANY type of stronghold or 'addiction'- one of the couples that came for help was there because the husband had a problem with spending. He admitted it and wanted help for it, he was addicted to 'spending' and had no self control.

I guess to me, before we lend in these days we live, I think it is wise to consider if we are enabling the person to continue in their sin of lack of self control and indulging themselves.

Decades ago, when I was a single mother and had a tiny apartment for myself & 2 children, I knew of a sister in the Lord living in her car- I didn't know her well, but invited her to move in- I had 2 bedrooms- she was happy to sleep on the couch. I thought this arrangement would help her get on her feet until she could find a place to live but then I saw how she literally blew her money, paycheck to paycheck, and then I realized why she was homeless. I don't think it is wise to help people continue in any sin. Being poor stewards and lack of self control, is sin (and we all have sins to overcome, but we also need to help each other overcome them, by prayer, by counsel- not sweeping it under the carpet)
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Wade
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Re: Loans to church Brothers and/or Sisters - not being repayed?

Post by Wade »

Chris wrote:Okay, these are all good points. Going off a strict biblical perspective though we are commanded to lend money to those who ask, lend without expecting to be repaid, and not asking for the money back if loaned!

To follow the Bible seems very hard as anybody could come take any bit of money away from another person if taken literally. Were loans in Biblical days TAKEN for WAY different things than today? I could understand that if a brother needed to borrow money for food to lend and not expect repayment. But today people will borrow money for a lot of things, even quasi necessities (I want a bit of a better home or car than the other choice) and then we see them on vacations later!

Are we supposed to lend PERIOD and never expect it back and never ask for it back? The scriptures from a fairly strong viewpoint allude to this.... Need advice definitely. Thanks!
Do you think that scripture is only talking about
giving wealth?

Even if they don't completely realize it, they may be asking for help eslewhere.

Have you tried directing them to the Deacon?
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