Anabaptist views on supernatural Spiritual Gifts

[Sudsy]

From what I have read in the history of early Anabaptism, there were, what some would call, 'extreme' views and experiences within Anabaptism regarding spiritual gifts and their use in an Anabaptist church today. Much like what occurs in Charismatic churches today.

When it comes to experiencing supernatural activity in your local Anabaptist church and amongst your people would you say that it is quite removed from this activity or otherwise and what your thoughts are on the subject.

[NedFlanders]

Romans 12:6 Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, whether prophecy, let us prophesy according to the proportion of faith;
Romans 12:7 Or ministry, let us wait on our ministering: or he that teacheth, on teaching;
Romans 12:8 Or he that exhorteth, on exhortation: he that giveth, let him do it with simplicity; he that ruleth, with diligence; he that sheweth mercy, with cheerfulness.

I have seen giving, mercy, and serving in the CA world that I have never seen elsewhere! I call that supernatural.

[steve-in-kville]

I believe that God works in mysterious ways. I am proof of that a few times over!

[Sudsy]

Romans 12:6 Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, whether prophecy, let us prophesy according to the proportion of faith;
Romans 12:7 Or ministry, let us wait on our ministering: or he that teacheth, on teaching;
Romans 12:8 Or he that exhorteth, on exhortation: he that giveth, let him do it with simplicity; he that ruleth, with diligence; he that sheweth mercy, with cheerfulness.

I have seen giving, mercy, and serving in the CA world that I have never seen elsewhere! I call that supernatural.

When it comes to spiritual gifts I see at least 3 texts. The one you gave Romans 12 and 1 Cor 12:7-11, Eph 4:11-13.

I agree some gifts can be seen as active in various churches today but what about the 1 Cor 12:7-11 gifts ? Do you see Christians in your local church with these where you would say that sister or brother so and so obviously has one of these gifts ? Or do you view these gifts as not gifts we should expect in the church today ?

[Soloist]

To a large degree I believe it depends on how much we “need” the Lord. It seems like Americans are rich and have need of nothing meanwhile we have rags.

[Sudsy]

To a large degree I believe it depends on how much we “need” the Lord. It seems like Americans are rich and have need of nothing meanwhile we have rags.

If by this you mean the tendency is to be more self reliant rather than believing and relying on the Holy Spirit, I agree.

The scripture says to 'earnestly desire spiritual gifts' . Paul writes in 1 Cor 14:1 to 'Pursue love, and earnestly desire the spiritual gifts, especially that you may prophesy.' Most Christians, I think, agree that we should 'pursue love' but when it comes to spiritual gifts as those previously spoken of in 1 Cor. 12, it would seem this is too 'scary' of an area to get involved in and probably due to the obvious abuse of these that we have saw ourselves or heard about.

I think the early church had some fears also. Paul says things like “do not forbid speaking in tongues,” “do not quench the Spirit,” and “do not despise prophecies”. So, it seems there was some shying away from this subject. But these are commands just as the other commands given to the church to obey.

And these gifts are a way of expressing love for one another in the church. When each one exercises the gift(s) they have been given, then they serve the 'common good' of the church.

But what if one is going to a church that does not have the manifestation of the gifts in 1 Cor 12 ? Perhaps that church would not even allow for these gifts to be active in a meeting. I have been in charismatic churches which appeared to allow for the use of these spiritual gifts but it seems that the scriptural directions given for such gifts were often not followed.

I wonder how many here attend churches were they have heard sermons on earnestly desiring spiritual gifts and include the gifts spoken of in 1 Cor 12 ? And if not, why is this not given importance whereas other instructions for the Corinthian church are given high importrance ?

[ohio jones]

Most of us are not theoretical cessationists. But sometimes we are functional cessationists.

[NedFlanders]

Romans 12:6 Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, whether prophecy, let us prophesy according to the proportion of faith;
Romans 12:7 Or ministry, let us wait on our ministering: or he that teacheth, on teaching;
Romans 12:8 Or he that exhorteth, on exhortation: he that giveth, let him do it with simplicity; he that ruleth, with diligence; he that sheweth mercy, with cheerfulness.

I have seen giving, mercy, and serving in the CA world that I have never seen elsewhere! I call that supernatural.

When it comes to spiritual gifts I see at least 3 texts. The one you gave Romans 12 and 1 Cor 12:7-11, Eph 4:11-13.

I agree some gifts can be seen as active in various churches today but what about the 1 Cor 12:7-11 gifts ? Do you see Christians in your local church with these where you would say that sister or brother so and so obviously has one of these gifts ? Or do you view these gifts as not gifts we should expect in the church today ?

Those gifts are, word of wisdom, word of knowledge, faith, healing, working of miracles, prophecy, discerning of spirits, divers kinds of tongues, and interpretations of tongues.

I see wisdom and knowledge and faith in our local setting. I’ve seen healing and that was a miracle but someone specifically working miracles - depends how you view it - if sharing the Gospel with a hard person and then that person becoming soft toward God is a miracle - which I think it is greater than most any miracle people can dream up - then yes.
Prophecy - the former prophets call was simply to repent as the day of judgement is coming - which yes I’ve seen - but newer ideas around prophecy focus too much on future details instead of the point of the message and often misuse or don’t understand this gift and might disagree with me.
Discerning of spirits - yes of course.
My study of tongues through scripture lead me to tongues simply meaning a coherent language. So yes and yes.

And my experience with a person who spoke in incoherent babbles that they called “tongues” - I literally seen a dark figure move into the room and move into the man who the babbler was babbling too(no one else saw it). The babbler sounded like a snake and when I discerned his spirit as evil and told him that he threatened me from their after to due violence to me and slandered my name amongst any other professing believers.

[Sudsy]

I have seen giving, mercy, and serving in the CA world that I have never seen elsewhere! I call that supernatural.

When it comes to spiritual gifts I see at least 3 texts. The one you gave Romans 12 and 1 Cor 12:7-11, Eph 4:11-13.

I agree some gifts can be seen as active in various churches today but what about the 1 Cor 12:7-11 gifts ? Do you see Christians in your local church with these where you would say that sister or brother so and so obviously has one of these gifts ? Or do you view these gifts as not gifts we should expect in the church today ?

Those gifts are, word of wisdom, word of knowledge, faith, healing, working of miracles, prophecy, discerning of spirits, divers kinds of tongues, and interpretations of tongues.

I see wisdom and knowledge and faith in our local setting. I’ve seen healing and that was a miracle but someone specifically working miracles - depends how you view it - if sharing the Gospel with a hard person and then that person becoming soft toward God is a miracle - which I think it is greater than most any miracle people can dream up - then yes.
Prophecy - the former prophets call was simply to repent as the day of judgement is coming - which yes I’ve seen - but newer ideas around prophecy focus too much on future details instead of the point of the message and often misuse or don’t understand this gift and might disagree with me.
Discerning of spirits - yes of course.
My study of tongues through scripture lead me to tongues simply meaning a coherent language. So yes and yes.

And my experience with a person who spoke in incoherent babbles that they called “tongues” - I literally seen a dark figure move into the room and move into the man who the babbler was babbling too(no one else saw it). The babbler sounded like a snake and when I discerned his spirit as evil and told him that he threatened me from their after to due violence to me and slandered my name amongst any other professing believers.

Thankyou, I appreciate you sharing your beliefs and experiences.

I will reply to the tongues gifts later but am especially interested to know how people understand the word of knowledge and the word of wisdom.

Here is a little funny I read on this - “Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is knowing not to put it in the fruit salad.”

The way I currently understand the word of knowledge and the word of wisdom is these are not just wisdom and knowledge that comes through study and experience but rather special gifting that some are given where certain knowledge is given by the Spirit about something that they would not normally know about and the word of wisdom would be the right time and place to offer this knowledge.

https://www.blueletterbible.org/Comm/st ... wledge.cfm

In the summary from this link, I tend to agree with the latter as it being supernatural insight given by God in a certain situation. Some examples in this link point to these texts - John 1:48, John 4:16-18 and Matthew 16:17.

More thoughts anyone on what is the word of knowledge and the word of wisdom ?

[Valerie]

I agree with what you shared about the word of wisdom and the word of knowledge- certainly read in context these are Spiritual Gifts. My husband and I both had belonged to churches that exercised this kind of faith. It was their teaching that these gifts were available and beneficial to the body of Christ as they were in the beginning, not just for a privileged time.

I had personally heard a word of knowledge I knew was for me, no doubt in my mind. My husband had received this benefit from one with this gift. We both saw why the Holy Spirit whovis "the Helper" helps in a variety of ways. When you know it is the Sprit speaking a word to someone it is a miracle in itself. It's been a long time since I've seen these gifts operating. They will not most likely in an atmosphere of doubt. Jesus, looked for faith when healing at times.

The Word of Wisdom would be exercised in a similar manner, where a person really needed it by the Holy Spirits guidance.
Beneficial, seemingly rare in these days we live manifested like the early Church. Of course if you are of the Pentecostal denominations, there is an expectation of Spiritual gifts because it is Scriptural.