Transitional Anabaptist churches

[Josh]

This is a thread to discuss Anabaptist churches which are transitional. I define “transitional Anabaptist churches” as having the following characteristics:

- Most of their members have a background in an Anabaptist church more conservative than they are. (The “source” churches may be transitional as well.)

- They readily accept members from more conservative churches, even if that church and its leadership would prefer that they didn’t or they are under church discipline there.

- They regularly have their own members leave for a less-conservative church.

The following qualities may be found as well:

- They prefer not to accept members from a less-conservative church and would require any such supplicants to go through a lengthy membership process.

- They tend to refer to more-conservative groups as not believing in born again salvation, believing in salvation via works, or that many of their members are not converted/saved.

- When a marriage happens between one of their own members and someone from a more conservative group, the couple will usually choose to stay in the transitional Anabaptist church that is less conservative.

- They usually maintain sharing of pulpits, intermarriage, young people attending Bible schools, mission organisations, etc. with churches 1 or 2 steps less conservative, but never 2 steps more conservative. (See examples below.) Ultra-conservatives would be an exception to this.

- The membership and leadership usually has an identity that they are both quite conservative (but not too conservative) but also that they are a very biblical church with no extra-biblical rules. Rarely if ever do they have an identity as being transitional.

- They may be effective at having seekers join but such seekers rarely stick around for the long term.

Examples of sharing / fellowship lines:

- A Mid-West fellowship annual conference would invite a speaker who is a Keystone preacher.

- A Pilgrim/Keystone youth rally would have a (plain) CMC/RNoC preacher as a guest speaker.

- A Mid-West church would see its young people attend BMA’s
Bible school (EBI).

- A Horning boy marries a girl who goes to a Charity type of church. They end up choosing to attend the Charity type of church.

- A moderate Beachy church has young people go to DNI (BMA) mission training and then a BMA type of mission field (i58).

- German Baptists (New Conference) visit a moderate Charity church holding revival preaching.

- Hutterites (evangelical, intermediate) visit a moderate Charity church (“Berne church”).

One of the more interesting aspects of transitionalism is that it does not flow the other way. An ultra conservative preacher would be glad to preach anywhere invited but he will, as a rule, not be invited to preach in a moderate or BMA type of church. Members rarely flow to a more conservative transitional church, although it does occasionally happen.

Finally, transitionalists seem to be blissfully unaware what they are doing. A moderate conservative Beachy type of church will express a great deal of disappointment with its members leaving for a RNoC church with no coverings and that doesn’t practice nonresistance, but would have no insight that virtually all of their older members came from a much more conservative background.

Non-transitional churches do exist. The “one true church” type of groups are not well suited for this, although they do sometimes recruit people from more conservative groups, because leaving them for a less conservative group incurs a lot more social difficulty.

As part of this thread I am interested in hearing about other kinds of non-transitional churches.

[Ernie]

- They regularly have their own members leave for a less-conservative church....

As part of this thread I am interested in hearing about other kinds of non-transitional churches.

There are some transitional churches in which not many are leaving for a less-conservative church, but the whole church is transitioning to become a less-conservative church.

There is another kind of transitional churches that do not lose many of the current generation but will lose a successive generation. This is a sneakier version as there is really nothing that appears alarming on the surface, until the second or third generation starts leaving in droves.

[Ernie]

- A Pilgrim/Keystone youth rally would have a (plain) CMC/RNoC preacher as a guest speaker.

I've never heard of such a gathering. Have you?

I'm not aware of Pilgrimites (Intermediate) having youth rallies with Keystoners. (Moderate/Progressive)

[Ernie]

One of the more interesting aspects of transitionalism is that it does not flow the other way. An ultra conservative preacher would be glad to preach anywhere invited but he will, as a rule, not be invited to preach in a moderate or BMA type of church. Members rarely flow to a more conservative transitional church, although it does occasionally happen.

Most ultra conservative preachers would not want to preach at an intermediate, moderate or progressive-conservative church. For the few that would, their fellow ministers would give them a lot of grief if they tried. An ultra-conservative person wouldn't even ask his fellow ministers whether he could or should accept an invitation to preach in one of those churches. First of all, he shouldn't even be attending them in the first place. Secondly, he knows what the answer would be. My sister lives in an ultra/intermediate community and the ultra's asked their member to quit teaching school at the intermediate church, mid-term as I understand it. In an ultra setting you learn to ask about such things before you start, if you don't want to get grounded.

One thing about our church that I like is that we are fine with asking an Amishman to preach or a BMA person. We make our decision based on the individual, not what constituency he is a part of.

[Ernie]

- They readily accept members from more conservative churches, even if that church and its leadership would prefer that they didn’t or they are under church discipline there.

I'm curious what percentage of churches do this. I know there are some.
There are other transitional churches who are sitting down with the conservative church and talking things through and making sure everything is clear from the past before taking the wandering sheep in as a member.

[Sliceitup]

I’d love to see a study or something that would show the transitions in membership from ultra conservative to evangelical. Like what percentage of Mid Atlantic members are actually from the Horning church.

[Josh]

- A Pilgrim/Keystone youth rally would have a (plain) CMC/RNoC preacher as a guest speaker.

I've never heard of such a gathering. Have you?

I'm not aware of Pilgrimites (Intermediate) having youth rallies with Keystoners. (Moderate/Progressive)

I attended such a rally that had a rather unique preacher from Jamaica. He is somewhat famous in RNoC circles. At some point (when he was in the world) he owned some hotels, I can’t remember much else about him.

[Josh]

One of the more interesting aspects of transitionalism is that it does not flow the other way. An ultra conservative preacher would be glad to preach anywhere invited but he will, as a rule, not be invited to preach in a moderate or BMA type of church. Members rarely flow to a more conservative transitional church, although it does occasionally happen.

Most ultra conservative preachers would not want to preach at an intermediate, moderate or progressive-conservative church. For the few that would, their fellow ministers would give them a lot of grief if they tried. An ultra-conservative person wouldn't even ask his fellow ministers whether he could or should accept an invitation to preach in one of those churches. First of all, he shouldn't even be attending them in the first place. Secondly, he knows what the answer would be. My sister lives in an ultra/intermediate community and the ultra's asked their member to quit teaching school at the intermediate church, mid-term as I understand it. In an ultra setting you learn to ask about such things before you start, if you don't want to get grounded.

One thing about our church that I like is that we are fine with asking an Amishman to preach or a BMA person. We make our decision based on the individual, not what constituency he is a part of.

Interesting. My reference point was a Nationwide preacher who preached in a non Nationwide church (and then hurried out the door when it was done).

[Josh]

- They readily accept members from more conservative churches, even if that church and its leadership would prefer that they didn’t or they are under church discipline there.

I'm curious what percentage of churches do this. I know there are some.
There are other transitional churches who are sitting down with the conservative church and talking things through and making sure everything is clear from the past before taking the wandering sheep in as a member.

I heard that Nationwide in PA is doing this with W&F Conf. supplicants. I think this may be common when the “source” church is only 1 or maybe 2 steps away.

For a transition from, say, Amish or black-car Horning to a BMA or moderate Beachy, Charity, etc. type of church I have never heard of this being done.

[ohio jones]

- A Pilgrim/Keystone youth rally would have a (plain) CMC/RNoC preacher as a guest speaker.

I've never heard of such a gathering. Have you?

I'm not aware of Pilgrimites (Intermediate) having youth rallies with Keystoners. (Moderate/Progressive)

I attended such a rally that had a rather unique preacher from Jamaica. He is somewhat famous in RNoC circles. At some point (when he was in the world) he owned some hotels, I can’t remember much else about him.

https://amandala.com.bz/news/renowned-e ... it-belize/
https://www.gospelpublishers.com/usa/pr ... -redeemed/