The kiss of judgment?

Christian ethics and theology with an Anabaptist perspective
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Soloist
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The kiss of judgment?

Post by Soloist »

I'd never heard it called that until just the other night. For those who practice the Holy kiss but limit it to church members only, how do you quantify
Matthew 5:47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so? 48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
with the so called Kiss of Judgment... or rather not greeting those outside the membership list?

Question open to members/non-members of a "greeting with kiss practicing church".
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RZehr
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Re: The kiss of judgment?

Post by RZehr »

We would kiss or greet brothers in Christ whether members at our church or not, but wouldn't kiss an excommunicated person or someone known to be living in sin.

I believe the "one another" as in "greet one another with a holy kiss", is meant to be brothers in Christ.
I don't think it should be used as a stamp of approval or disapproval as it is sometimes.
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Josh
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Re: The kiss of judgment?

Post by Josh »

In reality as a seeker / convert, one just gets used to not being greeted with the holy kiss. Churches that are conservative enough to still practice it are also pretty strict to only greet with a holy kiss those who are members.

It's best to just accept things the way they are instead of feeling hurt / excluded by them. Of course the burden is left on us seekers to explain to visitors (a) why all this kissing is going on, and then (b) if it's so biblical why does nobody greet you?
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Soloist
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Re: The kiss of judgment?

Post by Soloist »

Josh wrote:In reality as a seeker / convert, one just gets used to not being greeted with the holy kiss. Churches that are conservative enough to still practice it are also pretty strict to only greet with a holy kiss those who are members.

It's best to just accept things the way they are instead of feeling hurt / excluded by them. Of course the burden is left on us seekers to explain to visitors (a) why all this kissing is going on, and then (b) if it's so biblical why does nobody greet you?
I'm not hurt, in actuality I don't want to be greeted with a Holy kiss. I admit its scripture and I have my reasons. Maybe someday I will not have a problem with it. Less explaining to do if no one greets non-members.
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Wade
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Re: The kiss of judgment?

Post by Wade »

I was at a church that stressed members only. When a visitor came and the minister greeted him with the holy kiss and then we went to dinner at the ministers home with these visitors, I asked the minister after the visitor left: what fellowship the visitor was from and he said he didn't know, he had never met that man before...

Then at another church another newcomer went in to give one of the members a holy kiss and the member cringed... Some of the members of this church have been very accepting and have even greeted me.

Plus there are some who only practice lip to lip and others that are horrified by this and practice lip to cheek only.

From these experiences I never make that move first as to not offend anyone... Hopefully they do not feel rejected as more have went to, but then with my hesitation of uncertainty - it never happened...

It probably is easier to wait to be a member rather than making for awkward moments - maybe, if joining doesn't take too long of time of proving...



For the newcomer: I would be curious RZehr if when you say brother in Christ if that would include only other Christians who are members of at least some church? And most likely one of similarity at least of what you attend?
If so, that could be more than reasonable but just wanting to clarify.
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RZehr
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Re: The kiss of judgment?

Post by RZehr »

As far as who I would greet – Practically speaking any Christian brother (member or not) that believes in, or is willing to initiate/accept a holy kiss, then I am willing to kiss them - not that I make a point to do so. If they are of the holy kiss persuasion, then it is safe to assume we are close enough in practice to greet.

And if I happen to kiss an unsaved person or someone with completely wrong doctrine, so be it. No harm done. I don’t consider the holy kiss as sort of a stamp of approval on where they go to church.

This kiss thing can be ridiculous. I’ve seen a divisive, excommunicated person come to our church and try to greet people, solely to make people uncomfortable and I guess to “prove” that he was still a Christian. Whatever.
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Last edited by RZehr on Thu May 25, 2017 11:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Chris
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Re: The kiss of judgment?

Post by Chris »

Mennonites sometimes VERY unfortunately weaponize the Holy Kiss against each other. While many churches will greet other churches (and this is good), some will give the ol' stiff arm because "You don't practice as much Mennonite baggage as me" in a passive aggressive attack.

I'll greet nearly anybody that professes Jesus Christ with a Holy Kiss (if they are culturally familiar with it). Who am I to judge? It's a kiss of Christ's love, not some binding/confession of faith. I've done this to Eastern Mennonites, Nationwide, Tampico (sleeping preacher) etc. Each time I tell the person "God Bless you" and I MEAN it!!! I've even tugged in the ol' stiff arm and planted one because I love my brother in Christ.

There is no need to add subtleties to the simplicity of Jesus Christ! When the Anabaptists in Martyr's Mirror were led back to their cells after being racked, I wonder if their intent was for this exodus of true Christianity to evolve back into man made practices with a weaponized stiff arm rejection of their brother because his hair wasn't parted right... Love one another as Jesus loves us.
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Hats Off
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Re: The kiss of judgment?

Post by Hats Off »

We are reminded/exhorted to practise the holy kiss and yet some in the church are so opposed to this among laity that they offer the long, stiff arm. Traditionally in the old order Mennonite churches, this was only practised between ordained men or ordained men and older men. I would greet any member from a church that practices this although I am very careful when I consider them to be stricter or plainer than we are so I don't offend them. We limit it to brethern (church members).
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