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I think it would be good to hash out a list of conferences (just a plain simple list) of where they stand overall in the realms of liberal vs. conservative. Some threads have them well defined, however other subject matters are not clear. If you can contribute to this list in replies I'd appreciate it. I REALLY think this would help newbies who are clueless to menno conferences. Also I'm really trying to get a list together (still) and publish.

Conservative: (No movies, no or VERY limited internet (such as email or very filtered internet) solid color dress, sometimes solid or plain colored vehicles, women covered, all segregate seating)

Nationwide
Fellowship Churches
Eastern Pennsylvania Mennonites

Moderate: (No movies for the most part (may have exceptions to specifics or regulated by dads) internet filtered, some prints on dress, women covered, some segregate seating)

Beachy Amish
Mid Atlantic

Liberal: (Movies allowed so long as they aren't "bad", internet allowed, no cape dress but just modest dress and mostly covered. No seg seating required or left up to the church)

Biblical Mennonite Alliance (BMA)

Chris wrote:I think it would be good to hash out a list of conferences (just a plain simple list) of where they stand overall in the realms of liberal vs. conservative. Some threads have them well defined, however other subject matters are not clear. If you can contribute to this list in replies I'd appreciate it. I REALLY think this would help newbies who are clueless to menno conferences. Also I'm really trying to get a list together (still) and publish.

Conservative: (No movies, no or VERY limited internet (such as email or very filtered internet) solid color dress, sometimes solid or plain colored vehicles, women covered, all segregate seating)

Nationwide
Fellowship Churches
Eastern Pennsylvania Mennonites

Moderate: (No movies for the most part (may have exceptions to specifics or regulated by dads) internet filtered, some prints on dress, women covered, some segregate seating)

Beachy Amish
Mid Atlantic

Liberal: (Movies allowed so long as they aren't "bad", internet allowed, no cape dress but just modest dress and mostly covered. No seg seating required or left up to the church)

Biblical Mennonite Alliance (BMA)

Chris:

I think you won't get all of the variations out there to fit into three neat categories. I think Ernie has a list somewhere that might meet your needs.

J.M.

EPMC (Eastern Pennsylvania Mennonite Church) small print and subdued/small checked pattern dresses are quite acceptable, and in some congregations you'll find stripes and occasionally prints larger than dime size.
Church vehicles dark colored (> 50% probably black), depending on congregation it's not uncommon for lighter colors to be considered OK for work vehicles. Two-tone vehicles avoided. Color probably not much of an issue at all on an older farm truck.

NWF (Nationwide Fellowship) dress standards vary even more by congregation, but most would accept same dress prints/patterns as above. Some congregations only black vehicles, others even church vehicles might be light colored, but few or no two-tone vehicles. Some congregations all men wear black hats for church and daily life (straw hats OK for work), others not a black hat in sight. Some congregations you'll find striped or checked shirts on the men for evening services, others only solid shirts mostly white or light blue, green, or grey.

BAM (Beachey Amish Mennonite) that I know used CovenantEyes for filter on laptop, I don't think any filter on smartphone. NetFlix movies not a problem, talked about openly.

I agree with JM, you're going to need more than three boxes (maybe on average a category for every 5-10 congregations?).

I think you won't get all of the variations out there to fit into three neat categories. I think Ernie has a list somewhere that might meet your needs.

J.M.[/quote]

I suggest you use the categories identified by Stephen Scott.

Old Order
Ultra Conservative
Intermediate Conservative
Moderate Conservative
Fundamental Conservative
Theological Conservative

You can read more about these groups at the links in the OP of this thread.
http://forum.mennonet.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=147

I think it would be good to hash out a list of conferences (just a plain simple list) of where they stand overall in the realms of liberal vs. conservative. Some threads have them well defined, however other subject matters are not clear. If you can contribute to this list in replies I'd appreciate it. I REALLY think this would help newbies who are clueless to menno conferences. Also I'm really trying to get a list together (still) and publish. I'll leave out old order for now.

Most conferences will vary a bit by specific church.

Ultra Conservative: (No movies, no or VERY limited internet (such as email or very filtered internet) solid color dress, sometimes solid or plain colored vehicles, women covered, all segregate seating, no wedding band or jewelry, no make up on on women)

Nationwide (Small patterns may be accepted, vehicle color darkened non-two toned, men may wear black hats to church to hang on a nail)
Fellowship Churches
Eastern Pennsylvania Mennonites (small checkered patterns accepted, vehicle color darkened non-two toned, men may wear black hats to church to hang on a nail)
Tampico Mennonite (Sleeping preacher) - (No internet, solids, no photographs)
Ohio Wislers
Washington/Franklin

Intermediate Conservative: (Filtered internet, Solid dress, Seg seating, women wear capes and veils, no movies, no TV, no wedding band or jewelry, no make up on women)
Maranatha Amish Mennonites
Pilgrim Conference
Northeastern Mennonite Conference

Moderate Conservative: (No movies for the most part (may have exceptions to specifics or regulated by dads) internet filtered, some prints on dress, women covered, some segregate seating, no wedding band or jewelry, no make up on women)

Beachy Amish - More varied on church practice, but generally Moderate. Veiled women.
Mid Atlantic - Women wear Kapps rather than veils.
Bethel Fellowship
Northeastern Mennonite Conference


Fundamental Conservative: (Movies allowed so long as they aren't "bad", internet allowed, no cape dress but just modest dress and mostly covered. No seg seating required or left up to the church)

Biblical Mennonite Alliance (BMA) - (Some may use covenant eyes filters) (No wedding band)




**Non-list edit, category suggestions? I think I should limit to 5 for simplicity. I think somebody not familiar with Mennonites will get the general "understanding" based off these things without too much complication. MOST non-mennos want to know if they are going to still have the internet, how they'll basically be expected to dress, and if they'll be expected to seg seat away from their families. I'll try to get the conference churches mapped out on google too, with more specific practices. I do not think people from an Anabaptist background understand how much those from Non-Menno backgrounds will research to death the church practices before attending. Usually without answers.

My hope here is that this will not just end up a text list, but will be an excellent and detailed map. I'm inspired off the Pilgrim church finder, but it is dated and has less interaction (not complaining! It's nice!) First start with "general conference" expectations, then eventually down to each church. Would appreciate any input. It also leaves out BMA churches and several other conferences.

PLEASE I DO NOT KNOW ALL THE PRACTICES of each conference. Please let me know if you do and I'll update. My hope is to get this organized over the next two to three months and posted.

I have the tech experience to do this. Just a little input helps, and I can put out some colorful maps and inspire more contribution.

Also, do "Theological Conservative" churches, do the women cover and dress modestly (Do they live out their faith)?

I'm glad you're using Ernie's categories. I was going to complain about your use of "liberal".

As has been noted, Beachys are very diverse and won't all fit into a single category. About the only common thing might be no radio. Some allow musical instruments, some don't; some require men to wear button-down shirts, while others have no regulation, so guys can wear t-shirts with writing. (And you might have one church that requires button-down shirts but allows instruments - I believe I know of one - while another allows t-shirts but not instruments. So it may be hard to tell if a congregation is more liberal or conservative than another overall, because they might be both more liberal and more conservative than each other on different issues). Also, Beachy women might wear either veiling or kapp depending on the church. I think most used to wear kapps but many are switching to veilings. Some veilings might be plain white, others might allow lace trim. Some allow black veils during the week. Etc...

buckeyematt2 wrote:I'm glad you're using Ernie's categories. I was going to complain about your use of "liberal".

As has been noted, Beachys are very diverse and won't all fit into a single category. About the only common thing might be no radio. Some allow musical instruments, some don't; some require men to wear button-down shirts, while others have no regulation, so guys can wear t-shirts with writing. (And you might have one church that requires button-down shirts but allows instruments - I believe I know of one - while another allows t-shirts but not instruments. So it may be hard to tell if a congregation is more liberal or conservative than another overall, because they might be both more liberal and more conservative than each other on different issues). Also, Beachy women might wear either veiling or kapp depending on the church. I think most used to wear kapps but many are switching to veilings. Some veilings might be plain white, others might allow lace trim. Some allow black veils during the week. Etc...

Yes Ernie's lists are great! I want to use that info, plus mennonet info and generate a colorful and perhaps interactive map. I've never seen anything fluid like that with a lot of church info and an easy to follow map on conference type / standards.

This is good to know. Without doubt beachy's will be hard to fully encapsulate. I think it is worth at try though because button-down vs. not is not typically a deal breaker for a non-menno background.. At least in my experience. I think a major deal breaker would be no internet. Some may be more sensitive to musical instruments, so that should be included.

Beachys and other Amish-Mennonites can be into ultra-conservative, conservative, moderate, mainstream, and intentionalist streams, and then within that divided into various sub-groups basically aligned along "like BMA" - "moderate conservative" - "intermediate". So can most other groups including Charity, Apostolic Christian, Hutterite, and so forth.

I would suggest talking to Cory Anderson more about the various distinctions he made and also reading his published works. And definitely read Stephen Scott's books.

What is "conservative" will wildly vary. More conservative Apostolic Christians will mandate men wear ties to church. More conservative Mennonites will mandate they do not, for example.

Chris wrote: My hope here is that this will not just end up a text list, but will be an excellent and detailed map. I'm inspired off the Pilgrim church finder, but it is dated and has less interaction (not complaining! It's nice!) First start with "general conference" expectations, then eventually down to each church.

Your project combines several ideas I had- here's hoping you end up producing a substantial resource.

I've also seen a church's requirements against insurance (especially medical coverage) be a deal-breaker for some families, might it be helpful to include that as one of the comparisons?