Holdeman "Documentary" is this true?

[MaxPC]

I wonder if this video is by someone who left and is embittered. I do believe the “duck analogy” applies to the creator of this piece.

[Chris]

So as I'm understanding it, Holdeman would be a one way in ticket to a "realest truest church" and that all other churches are inferior / without truth / without completion... Something like that. Is this correct?

How do Holdeman beliefs consider the origins of the Christian faith? Was truth given to them from outside of Holdemans? What was greatly "reformed" to have the full truth above anybody else?

[Josh]

So as I'm understanding it, Holdeman would be a one way in ticket to a "realest truest church" and that all other churches are inferior / without truth / without completion... Something like that. Is this correct?

Holdemans do not make a judgment on other churches but rather focus on their own. We are accountable for our own members and congregations.

We can’t make judgments of other church groups since we aren’t members there nor intimately involved.

How do Holdeman beliefs consider the origins of the Christian faith? Was truth given to them from outside of Holdemans?

Christianity has held to a one true church vision from the start until the Reformation.

Anabaptists have held to a one church vision as well, which is well documented in the early Flemish church splits. Most Anabaptists retained some version of this.

The most liberal plain churches do allow “easy go”.

What was greatly "reformed" to have the full truth above anybody else?

Most Anabaptists, including virtually all Amish, about half of German Baptists, the majority of Apostolic Christians / Nazareans, various Old Order Mennonite groups, and so on so not believe someone should have a free pass to simply leave their church and go to another, particularly when they choose to go to a more worldly church (which is what virtually all people who choose to leave a plain church do).

What I tell people is that if you want a church where you can leave it whenever you feel like without any impact to your social life with the people there, and you want a church where the ministers / pastors encourage people to leave and tell them there are no spiritual consequences for doing so - a Holdeman, Amish, or other plain congregation isn’t a good fit for you.

Try the nearest megachurch instead. Or look for a much more liberal plain church like some CMC, BMA, liberal Beachy etc. - but prepare to get hurt by the revolving door of people leaving. The church I first attended as a new believer has half the people on it that it did 9 years ago and almost none of the young people are still there. 2 young people did return as adults after their entire family left the plain world, but only because of a strong influence from a few seeker families and myself. That’s not a future I want for my children.

[Sudsy]

To me, the main flaw in the Holdeman belief is that the true Church of Christ is a specific group of people that adhere to the doctrines and practises of a man created church group when the scripture indicates the Church of Christ is God's Church known only to Him. They ignore or have a different understanding on what scripture means that all of us currently only know in part until Jesus returns. The very nature of this kind of believing smacks to me of pride and a degree of exclusiveness toward other professing believers in Jesus. Sort of like the way the Pharisees viewed those that did not agree with their beliefs.

I think there are those in other faith groups that believe the same way. The group I grew up in had Pentecostals that also had a similar view of any professing believer not believing like their brand of Pentecostalism. Some have some pretty narrow beliefs on whether or not a person is even saved if they haven't spoken in an unknown tongue.

Do I believe there are wonderful Christians in the Holdeman group ? I have no reason to doubt there are. But I also believe the Church is not a church. Big 'C' Church is all the born again believers in Christ regardless of what small 'c' church they fellowship in.

Imo, whenever a church begins to establish rules that are not literally mentioned in the scriptures, they are on shaky ground of being cultish meaning 'relating to or characteristic of a small group of people having religious beliefs regarded by others as strange or as imposing excessive control over members.'

This video has people talking about things that sound to me like imposing excessive control over members. People can be in these environments and yet have no personal relationship with God. The true Church has an on-going relationship with Jesus and it sounds to me like some on this video found the difference when they did enter into such a relationship. The same thing happens in various church groups, even ones that are quite liberal, as people who have lived according to expectations of that church, one day are born again.

Thats where I am at but open to other views.

[Chris]

Yeah I don't think Holdeman will suit for me.

The gospel should go to nations of the world, not into an inclusive group with a special revealed truth. Who won't "judge" other churches, unless of course one of their members moves and wants to attend another church.

I'm not even sure this is "Anabaptist", but pseudo Anabaptist.

Is it pronounced "Hold-em-in" because that's what it sounds like happens in the church...

[Josh]

Yeah I don't think Holdeman will suit for me.

The gospel should go to nations of the world, not into an inclusive group with a special revealed truth. Who won't "judge" other churches, unless of course one of their members moves and wants to attend another church.

We do lots of tract work and mission outreach and most of it is focused on a simple gospel message. Most people who read gospel tracts don’t end up coming to our church but might go to another one. Our missions are in many different countries and tract work in even more.

There are 50,000 or so Protestant denominations and I can’t judge every single one of them as right and wrong, let alone a specific congregation.

I have been comfortable worshipping with Pentecostals, Baptists, Catholics, and Beachys even though I don’t agree with all of their doctrines.

I'm not even sure this is "Anabaptist", but pseudo Anabaptist.

The early Anabaptist churches were very sectarian. Most of Holdeman doctrine on this topic comes straight out of Menno Simons, Dyck, and other early Anabaptist writers.

Is it pronounced "Hold-em-in" because that's what it sounds like happens in the church...

Ok, Chris.

[Ken]

We do lots of tract work and mission outreach and most of it is focused on a simple gospel message. Most people who read gospel tracts don’t end up coming to our church but might go to another one.

What is the point of that if there is only "one true church?"

[ken_sylvania]

We do lots of tract work and mission outreach and most of it is focused on a simple gospel message. Most people who read gospel tracts don’t end up coming to our church but might go to another one.

What is the point of that if there is only "one true church?"

Which would suggest that maybe the strict "one true church" is held more strongly in others' opinions of them, than in the mind of the Holdeman people themselves.

[Ken]

We do lots of tract work and mission outreach and most of it is focused on a simple gospel message. Most people who read gospel tracts don’t end up coming to our church but might go to another one.

What is the point of that if there is only "one true church?"

Which would suggest that maybe the strict "one true church" is held more strongly in others' opinions of them, than in the mind of the Holdeman people themselves.

I would suggest it is an either or situation, kind of like being pregnant.

You either are, or you are not. There isn't really room for shades of gray.

[Soloist]

I would suggest it is an either or situation, kind of like being pregnant.

You either are, or you are not. There isn't really room for shades of gray.

There is when there is the official and then the unofficial. Kind of like speed limits in my eyes. 1 mile over is speeding.