Coblentz on Gender Identity

Christian ethics and theology with an Anabaptist perspective
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Wayne in Maine
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Re: Coblentz on Gender Identity

Post by Wayne in Maine »

Erika wrote:
I have no agenda. I am not reinventing scripture...I have no associations with lesbians or gay or transgender people. I have no homosexual or transgender friends. So I have NO agenda. To me you come across as seeing an activist everywhere. I am not an activist. I do not appreciate being lumped with them as I do not associate with them because of their lifestyles. It is people like you who drive people like me to suicide. I came in peace with no agenda. I just wanted a place to belong.
It was statements like "If you wish to pretend that the LGBTI community is just LGBT then you are mistaken."
and "to say that interesex people are not part of the LGBTI community is wrong." that raised a warning flag. Forgive me if I misunderstood. Many churches are being bombarded and destroyed over sexual identity issues so there is a real sensitivity over the use of such terminology.

I think the issues surrounding your birth condition in regards to your church membership is a question that should be discussed privately between yourself and the elders of the church to which you are seeking membership. The issues are too complex and personal for an internet forum such as this one.
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Soloist
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Re: Coblentz on Gender Identity

Post by Soloist »

Assuming you stick around, what is your opinion on divorce and remarriage? what about homosexuality? What exactly do you think about these scenarios?

A person going to an Anabaptist church having been raised a male all their life but has felt like they would be happier as a female and struggle with their feelings on the issue. What should they do and the church?

A female wants to attend an Anabaptist church who has had a surgery to become a male but now feels otherwise. What should they do and the church?

A couple has a child with both female external organs with XY chromosomes and asks the church what they should do.
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Josh
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Re: Coblentz on Gender Identity

Post by Josh »

Erika wrote:As with many human interactions there are often assumptions made about a person. This leads to ill will.
If you ask intelligent questions you get intelligent answers. I have replied to every intrusive question asked of me.
If you don't want people to respond negatively, don't post negative comments. It's that simple.
Next time don't make assumptions about people if you want them to interact positively with you.
Here in Australia we have none of the problems that Americans have. We give everyone a fair go and live and let live.
If you want people to be nice - be nice - it's that simple.
Erika, I'm Australian too, and I find that the problems of sin, jealousy, pride, vanity, etc exist just as much in Australia as they do in America.

Have you considered being part of a healthy Uniting Church? They would affirm your sexual orientation, whatever it is, and would also have space for someone who wants to affirm a peace position on war, etc.
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Valerie
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Re: Coblentz on Gender Identity

Post by Valerie »

Erika wrote:
Valerie wrote: Can you not see that you are hurling attacks at posters who are discussing something that has really affected our culture with people that are trying to justify sin and to change laws, and encourage people instead of repenting of sin, to even say certain behaviors are not sin?
I am not responsible for what is happening your part of the world. I suggest you take your complaints to the people who you charge as trying to change you. The only change I want to see in people is to repent and believe the gospel.

I don't know what's happening in Australia, but I do know what is happening here.

As I said take it to the people concerned - not to me.
No one seems to me, to be trying to drive YOU away, but I for one do not wish to be forced to accept things I simply do not believe are true.

I am not forcing you to accept ANYTHING. What do you think a conservative Mennonite believes?

This is the problem- instead of being able to have dialogue with you, you quickly get on the defense and attack back. My goodness, as Christians we should be able to have a conversation without trying to lay guilt trips on people, are you trying to understand anyone here and why they may feel the way they do?

I get defensive when people make assumptions about me. You lump me with people that I do not even socialize with. Assumptions cause ill will - would you like me to assume that you are an intolerant fundamentalist who suffers from paranoia about anyone who is different to you ? If anyone is getting defensive it is you.

I am accustomed here in America, in these days we live, for the LGBT group to charge us with 'misinterpreting scripture' as if 'they' now understand Scripture that was interpreted long ago. I have heard this being done over and over and so my question to you was to get clarification on what you meant. I am sorry if you took that personal, I was simply wanting to understand what you meant-

I have not charging ANYONE with misinterpreting scripture. As best I can follow the teachings of Kaufman's 'Doctrines of the Bible'. You assume I was a typical LGBTI activist and then rip into me according to the stereotype that you in your head. I am not an activist, I do not even socialize with the LGBT community. If you have a problem with the LGBT community have the guts to take it out on them, not with me who has nothing to do with them.


I realize we are made in the image of God and Jesus, who is God incarnate, does not try to convey that God is feminine like some of the Bibles have been changed to imply.

I use the KJV as most conservative Mennonites use and it says God made us in His image, male and female made He them....
If you think you have no female attributes because you were made in the image of a male, then that is your problem, not mine.

Maybe there is way to much focus on this, in your own life, instead of on just loving and worship of God- and loving your Christian community you are blessed with- but again, you told us very little about yourself, your life and then get so offended and accusatory which isn't really any less judgmental, then what you are accusing everyone here for. I hope you can understand that-
My whole Christian doctrine is about loving my neighbour as myself. Your doctrine seems to be attacking people who you assume are your enemy. I should also add, that if I should seen anyone, including ANYONE in need I will help them regardless of who they are, even a bigoted Christian or a bigoted person who LGBTI. Why? Because God commands me to love my fellow human regardless of who they are. You may benefit from reading the story of the Good Samaritan. That is love in action.
From my observation in your responses Erika, they are not very loving. But we tend to (myself included) see the speck in other's eyes in spite of the log/beam in our own.
I think that if you claim to be non-resistant & turning the other cheek, this forum will be good practice for you to actually live that out. I was simply asking for clarification on particular scriptures that you pull out of context, that I am accustomed to the LGBT community HERE in doing, who are trying to convey that we have misinterpreted scriptures all these years. This is why I asked what you meant. Try to understand what we are going through here. Then we can have understanding of each others positions and how we came to have them- I am interested in truth- and many people are changing truth in Scripture to fit their own positions in many areas.

There are a lot of topics discussed on Mennonet and I think that you would have a chance to find more community that you are searching for, since you are not able to attend church presently, if you don't make your whole attempt at relationships based on this particular topic.
But you already have made a pretty strong statement earlier about how messed up you see Anabaptism in America so I am not sure that you will be encouraged on a forum if you see them as fallen apart and split as you convey.
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Josh
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Re: Coblentz on Gender Identity

Post by Josh »

Erika wrote:Sorry everyone, I allowed my carnal nature and it's pride to show through. My most sincere apologies. Sorry Valerie, you are doing as best you can and you should be commended for that.
Since my conversion I no longer preach as the woman is to remain silent in church.
I ascribe to 1 Corinthians 11:1 - 9.
We are to edify each other, not tear each other down as we become passionate in our beliefs. Sometimes, as it was recently pointed out to me, we leave the (com) out of compassionate.
Again, my sincere apologies to God and others I may have offended, please forgive me, I am sorry.
Erika,

Go thru my posting history here and you'll see my carnal nature has come out a few times...

Thank you for your humility.
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Valerie
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Re: Coblentz on Gender Identity

Post by Valerie »

Josh wrote:
Erika wrote:Sorry everyone, I allowed my carnal nature and it's pride to show through. My most sincere apologies. Sorry Valerie, you are doing as best you can and you should be commended for that.
Since my conversion I no longer preach as the woman is to remain silent in church.
I ascribe to 1 Corinthians 11:1 - 9.
We are to edify each other, not tear each other down as we become passionate in our beliefs. Sometimes, as it was recently pointed out to me, we leave the (com) out of compassionate.
Again, my sincere apologies to God and others I may have offended, please forgive me, I am sorry.
Erika,

Go thru my posting history here and you'll see my carnal nature has come out a few times...

Thank you for your humility.
Yes thank you, I am truly sorry I offended you, I didn't mean to hurt you at all Erika, these are the most challenging days I've ever encountered in my long life of being a Christian and I sincerely hope to do better at working through some things without causing hurt while doing so, in trying to understand. I truly didn't mean to lump you in groups or label you, and I ask your forgiveness since I came across that way. There was someone named Erika who was on our previous forum years ago with such a similar story (at least before you told us more) and I thought you were the same person, and we had a very peaceful relationship (via personal messages behind the scenes). as we discussed her life- yet it is still difficult for me to understand it all I confess. I should have just stayed out of this thread altogether.
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temporal1
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Re: Coblentz on Gender Identity

Post by temporal1 »

Josh wrote: Erika,
Go thru my posting history here and you'll see my carnal nature has come out a few times...
Thank you for your humility.
Josh, i've appreciated your presence on forum, reading about your personal journey, and observing transformations of your spirit. i'm not nearly as frightened to respond to you as when you began. :) i have my own challenges to struggle with, none of us is exempt. i grieve that i may have harmed anyone.

while in an apologizing frame of mind, it would be "heartening" to read a word to Max, the OP, who requested posters return to the OP. twice. this is mostly an "honor system" courtesy, as described by admin, and, it was nicely described; but who better able to reflect an honor system than a bunch of folks seeking after the heart of Jesus Christ? :)
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Josh
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Re: Coblentz on Gender Identity

Post by Josh »

temporal1 wrote:
Josh wrote: Erika,
Go thru my posting history here and you'll see my carnal nature has come out a few times...
Thank you for your humility.
Josh, i've appreciated your presence on forum, reading about your personal journey, and observing transformations of your spirit. i'm not nearly as frightened to respond to you as when you began. :) i have my own challenges to struggle with, none of us is exempt. i grieve that i may have harmed anyone.

while in an apologizing frame of mind, it would be "heartening" to read a word to Max, the OP, who requested posters return to the OP. twice. this is mostly an "honor system" courtesy, as described by admin, and, it was nicely described; but who better able to reflect an honor system than a bunch of folks seeking after the heart of Jesus Christ? :)
I'd rather talk to a real live person struggling with gender identity issues than talk about some book.
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Re: Coblentz on Gender Identity

Post by MaxPC »

D.S. (Dal Segno) Back to the thread at hand:
In the same theme, I found another of Coblentz's books. If it's similar to some of his other books, I think I'll look into ordering it.
Living a Pure Lifeby John Coblentz
Sexual sin warps, poisons, and plunders the soul. In its path follow immeasurable havoc, confusion, and anguish. In spite of its painfully high costs, sexual sin often develops a powerful hold on both men and women. Thank God there is grace! In this book you'll find the principles and guidance of God's Word regarding moral purity. It faces honestly what happens when we sin. It lays out the requirements for dealing with sexual sin. And it points the way to living a pure life. Discretion advised.
https://www.clp.org/products/living_a_pure_life_488
...
MaxPC wrote:joshuabgood mentioned "Coblentz on gender identity". Is there a book or audio of his teachings on this?
joshuabgood wrote:I heard him give, what I thought, was a very sound exposition on this topic, a few months ago at an event sponsored by Faith-builders. It was probably recorded...
Josh
Ernie wrote:You can contact the Faith Builders bookstore to see if it was recorded.

https://christianlearning.org/
28527 Guys Mills Rd, Guys Mills, PA 16327
Phone: (877) 222-4769
Email: clr@fbep.org
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temporal1
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Re: Coblentz on Gender Identity

Post by temporal1 »

thanks for the new link (Living a Pure Life) the sample reading from the book looks very very good. :)
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Most or all of this drama, humiliation, wasted taxpayer money could be spared -
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”We’re all just walking each other home.”
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