Ephesians 5: "Shameful even to speak"

[Josh]

People repeat salacious things about politicians they have practiced hating with a certain glee, often even without checking to see if they are true. And judging by our conversation, it often seems like we think the political world is much more real than the Kingdom of God.

Boot, I am 100% confident that Biden hung a pride flag at the white house and then had typical pride performance on the White House lawn. I don’t say this with glee either. (Republicans are just as in favour of homosexual marriage and promoting homosexuality, these days.)

It is, however, fair to talk about the public square, because eventually it does influence our private homes and churches. Isn’t that the problem with MC USA’s schizophrenic personality when it comes to homosexuality? They allowed the changes in the public square to change them in the church sphere.

And other churches have allowed Trumpism or nationalism to change them in the church sphere.

In both directions, it's a real problem.

Nobody in MN is here representing such a church or promoting such a position. You might as well complain that some churches promote snake handling.

[Ken]

Boot, I am 100% confident that Biden hung a pride flag at the white house and then had typical pride performance on the White House lawn. I don’t say this with glee either. (Republicans are just as in favour of homosexual marriage and promoting homosexuality, these days.)

It is, however, fair to talk about the public square, because eventually it does influence our private homes and churches. Isn’t that the problem with MC USA’s schizophrenic personality when it comes to homosexuality? They allowed the changes in the public square to change them in the church sphere.

And other churches have allowed Trumpism or nationalism to change them in the church sphere.

In both directions, it's a real problem.

Nobody in MN is here representing such a church or promoting such a position. You might as well complain that some churches promote snake handling.

No one is here representing churches that have rainbow flags or gay pride events either, but that doesn't stop you from complaining about it does it?

And yes, there are Anabapist-affiliated churches that are heavily Republican and cheerlead Republican/Trump positions. And from where you will hear highly politicized sermons. I have even attended some. Not during the Trump era, but back a generation ago when it was George W Bush they were cheerleading. So it isn't even something very new.

[Valerie]

And other churches have allowed Trumpism or nationalism to change them in the church sphere.

In both directions, it's a real problem.

Nobody in MN is here representing such a church or promoting such a position. You might as well complain that some churches promote snake handling.

No one is here representing churches that have rainbow flags or gay pride events either, but that doesn't stop you from complaining about it does it?

And yes, there are Anabapist-affiliated churches that are heavily Republican and cheerlead Republican/Trump positions. And from where you will hear highly politicized sermons. I have even attended some. Not during the Trump era, but back a generation ago when it was George W Bush they were cheerleading. So it isn't even something very new.

Because the marriage Amendment Act was up for vote. Even the Amish came out to boat when that was the case. And yes they had an Amish Buggy parade for president Trump because they had hopes that roe v Wade would be overturned. And guess what? It finally was. That does not mean they preach about it at their churches just because as individuals people support one party or the other

[Ken]

Nobody in MN is here representing such a church or promoting such a position. You might as well complain that some churches promote snake handling.

No one is here representing churches that have rainbow flags or gay pride events either, but that doesn't stop you from complaining about it does it?

And yes, there are Anabapist-affiliated churches that are heavily Republican and cheerlead Republican/Trump positions. And from where you will hear highly politicized sermons. I have even attended some. Not during the Trump era, but back a generation ago when it was George W Bush they were cheerleading. So it isn't even something very new.

Because the marriage Amendment Act was up for vote. Even the Amish came out to boat when that was the case. And yes they had an Amish Buggy parade for president Trump because they had hopes that roe v Wade would be overturned. And guess what? It finally was. That does not mean they preach about it at their churches just because as individuals people support one party or the other

No, that marriage amendment stuff was in 2004 during the Bush v Kerry race. But that was another example of the politicization of religion.

I'm talking about 2000 during the Bush v Gore race. I visited my cousin's CMC church in northern Indiana during the fall of 2000 and got to listen to a very pro-Bush sermon for a whole lot of general cultural reasons that didn't have to do with gay marriage or abortion. Basically just anti Clinton/Gore "bring morality back to the White House stuff. I mean I didn't really care and wasn't offended and it was an interesting cultural experience. Most of those people were going to vote GOP anyway. I'm just pointing out that politics has been seeping into religion, even in the Anabaptist world, for some time now.

[Josh]

No one is here representing churches that have rainbow flags or gay pride events either, but that doesn't stop you from complaining about it does it?

Wrong - we have Mountain States Conf people here and used to have CDC people here. (Are you remotely familiar with MC USA’s last national conference?)

And yes, there are Anabapist-affiliated churches that are heavily Republican and cheerlead Republican/Trump positions. And from where you will hear highly politicized sermons. I have even attended some. Not during the Trump era, but back a generation ago when it was George W Bush they were cheerleading. So it isn't even something very new.

I have been quite generous in criticising the CMC here but this is also a completely unfair caricature of CMC churches. They allow a diversity of political viewpoints.

[Bootstrap]

And other churches have allowed Trumpism or nationalism to change them in the church sphere.

In both directions, it's a real problem.

Nobody in MN is here representing such a church or promoting such a position. You might as well complain that some churches promote snake handling.

Snake handling is a whole lot less common than Christians who promote LGBTQ or politicized Christianity or even Christian nationalism. If nobody here represents those things, that's great, then we can all focus on how to be a city on a hill. But American Christianity definitely has these problems.

FWIW, there was no snake handling in the county where my parents lived, but there were at least a few churches that did snake handling in the county immediately south of them. So people talked about snake handling, precisely because it was happening.

[Sudsy]

To be blunt, I think our speech is often influenced more by political attack ads and political attack media than by the Bible.

Very few on MN do this, yet you lob this accusation rather frequently. I haven’t seen a political attack ad in full in years and the little I have seen is very sickening to me.

People repeat salacious things about politicians they have practiced hating with a certain glee, often even without checking to see if they are true. And judging by our conversation, it often seems like we think the political world is much more real than the Kingdom of God.

Boot, I am 100% confident that Biden hung a pride flag at the white house and then had typical pride performance on the White House lawn. I don’t say this with glee either. (Republicans are just as in favour of homosexual marriage and promoting homosexuality, these days.)

It is, however, fair to talk about the public square, because eventually it does influence our private homes and churches. Isn’t that the problem with MC USA’s schizophrenic personality when it comes to homosexuality? They allowed the changes in the public square to change them in the church sphere.

To the underlined - If we ignore the 'public square' and the current type of sins they are involved in and are promoting and rather promote Jesus being the solution to any type of sinning don't you think this will best keep us from sliding into what the world thinks ? I think the text in the OP, that tells us where to keep our thoughts, is extremely important and often ignored. Talking about the current sinfulness of the world can be a real hindrance in our walk with God. It can bring a lot of anxiousness and quarreling and rob us of that peace that passeth all understanding. We can reach a point of losing our confidence that God is still able to change any sinner as He did the apostle Paul and others.

When Christianity gets side-tracked by all the evil in the world and speaking out all the time about this evil, imo, it is wandering from our mission here to talk about what the Kingdom of God is like and to enter into it as much as possible here and now.

Got to go for now but will return to discuss further.

[Outsider]

. After all, the Pharisees were genuinely trying to follow God. Their earnestness and zeal ("not according to knowledge") is apparent in the New Testament. These are the sins that Jesus was most outspoken about. If earnestly trying to do what is right is good enough, then the Pharisees should have been scot free.

I disagree.

Matthew 23 Then Jesus spoke to the multitudes and to His disciples, 2 saying: “The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. 3 Therefore whatever they tell you [a]to observe, that observe and do, but do not do according to their works; for they say, and do not do.

[KirkDaniel]

I am late to this conversation. Of course Paul says it is a shame to speak of the things people do in secret. But he also exposes those very things in several places in his letters. His point, as far as I can tell, is that certain sins are such an affront against nature and the Creator that it makes one blush to even contemplate them, let alone speak about them.

I say, Preach the truth, brother! Only sound doctrine can save the lost. But also love people and be willing to treat them like people, even in their sin.

[Grace]

Yesterday at a White House press briefing John Kirby, said it is “a foundational sacred obligation of military leaders” to pay for leave and travel reimbursement for abortions. Also to pay for "reproductive care", which includes abortions. He called it the right thing to do for Americans who volunteer to serve in the U.S. military, to have abortions covered for women in the military or the wives of men in the military. He went on to claim that the military will lose “talent” because they don’t cover abortions. My thoughts were that if these service people are so smart and talented, why weren’t they smart enough to use birth control?

https://thehill.com/policy/defense/4102 ... on-policy/

It is shameful and very sad, when providing and paying for abortions is deemed as a “sacred” obligation.


Isaiah 5:20 "Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!