“Go and sin some more”

[Bootstrap]

My overall question still stands, though. What exactly should be the relationship of the Christian to these kind of movements?

Pretty much the same as any other sin. Avoid it. Don't dwell on it. Don't make it the center of your thought life. Try to be salt and light to the sinful world around us.

So, here's one of the problems. We're about to spend a month completely surrounded/soaked in it. It's impossible to go shopping right now, for example, without seeing a large fraction of the children's clothes blatantly promoting this kind of thing.

Likewise, if one works at all around large corporate clients or employers, one is basically bombarded during June, including requests to participate in various "pride" related activities. I have usually been able to sidestep these by avoiding things since I'm just a contractor, or the smaller startups I worked for didn't expend as much energy on these things. But even that's changing.

For me, this isn't terribly different from the way I relate to women who expose a lot of skin. It's hard for me to not notice them, but I don't want to be obsessed with the way they are dressed, I don't want to stare, and there are times it's very helpful to think of something else entirely. I do, in fact, talk with women with whom I have to concentrate on looking them in the eye. I find it helpful to focus on "look her in the eye, listen to what she is saying, ask follow up questions, show you care about the things she is sharing with you". I don't find it helpful to focus on "don't look at her breasts", because when I do, my eyes tend to go there. Wherever my focus is, it tends to take the rest of me with it.

When I talk with women, I don't usually tell them what I think of the way they are dressed. It's not usually the most appropriate thing to talk about. I don't have that kind of relationship with them. Perhaps, as I get to know someone better, it might come up, but even then, I would probably let my wife have that conversation with her. There's something very awkward about me talking to a woman about what I think she should be wearing.

I worked for a company that was all woke and rainbow once. It was awkward at times. I just didn't participate in those things. At work, I treated coworkers as coworkers, and did not feel called to tell them what I thought of their lifestyle. I also felt free to be very open about being Christian. They didn't ask me what I thought of their lifestyle, I didn't ask them what they thought of mine.

That's a separate topic, but yes, one of my complaints with many right wing politicians is they seem to spend a lot of time reacting or making lots of noise about what their opponents are doing, and not much time at all doing anything constructive to advance their own good policies.

So how do we advance our own Kingdom amidst the world?

[Chris]

Seems consistent with Martin Luther.
http://www.catholicapologetics.info/apo ... luther.htm

Luther also wrote:

If you are a preacher of mercy, do not preach an imaginary but the true mercy. If the mercy is true, you must therefore bear the true, not an imaginary sin. God does not save those who are only imaginary sinners. Be a sinner, and let your sins be strong [or sin boldly], but let your trust in Christ be stronger, and rejoice in Christ who is the victor over sin, death, and the world. We will commit sins while we are here, for this life is not a place where justice resides. We, however, says Peter (2. Peter 3:13), are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth where justice will reign. It suffices that through God’s glory we have recognized the Lamb who takes away the sin of the world. No sin can separate us from Him, even if we were to kill or commit adultery thousands of times each day. Do you think such an exalted Lamb paid merely a small price with a meager sacrifice for our sins? Pray hard for you are quite a sinner.

Is there more context to this to magnify the depth. It looks to be in context but I'd be curious what was long before and after what he wrote. Because at face value as I read it - this is horribly bad.

[Valerie]

Pretty much the same as any other sin. Avoid it. Don't dwell on it. Don't make it the center of your thought life. Try to be salt and light to the sinful world around us.

So, here's one of the problems. We're about to spend a month completely surrounded/soaked in it. It's impossible to go shopping right now, for example, without seeing a large fraction of the children's clothes blatantly promoting this kind of thing.

Likewise, if one works at all around large corporate clients or employers, one is basically bombarded during June, including requests to participate in various "pride" related activities. I have usually been able to sidestep these by avoiding things since I'm just a contractor, or the smaller startups I worked for didn't expend as much energy on these things. But even that's changing.

For me, this isn't terribly different from the way I relate to women who expose a lot of skin. It's hard for me to not notice them, but I don't want to be obsessed with the way they are dressed, I don't want to stare, and there are times it's very helpful to think of something else entirely. I do, in fact, talk with women with whom I have to concentrate on looking them in the eye. I find it helpful to focus on "look her in the eye, listen to what she is saying, ask follow up questions, show you care about the things she is sharing with you". I don't find it helpful to focus on "don't look at her breasts", because when I do, my eyes tend to go there. Wherever my focus is, it tends to take the rest of me with it.

When I talk with women, I don't usually tell them what I think of the way they are dressed. It's not usually the most appropriate thing to talk about. I don't have that kind of relationship with them. Perhaps, as I get to know someone better, it might come up, but even then, I would probably let my wife have that conversation with her. There's something very awkward about me talking to a woman about what I think she should be wearing.

I worked for a company that was all woke and rainbow once. It was awkward at times. I just didn't participate in those things. At work, I treated coworkers as coworkers, and did not feel called to tell them what I thought of their lifestyle. I also felt free to be very open about being Christian. They didn't ask me what I thought of their lifestyle, I didn't ask them what they thought of mine.

That's a separate topic, but yes, one of my complaints with many right wing politicians is they seem to spend a lot of time reacting or making lots of noise about what their opponents are doing, and not much time at all doing anything constructive to advance their own good policies.

So how do we advance our own Kingdom amidst the world?

Interesting. One thing I learned about Amish men is that they avoid talking with women. Another thing I was told is that they avoid eye contact with women. It apparently is something that can be misconstrued or end up being a stumbling block. I think of the passage that Job said he keeps a covenant with his eyes that he will not look upon a virgin. When we go to the Amish produce auction I noticed them in our friendly with the men but they're very careful about engaging in conversations with women this must be a protection. I understand your point about not focusing. However their focus is definitely intentional at trying to get attention and affirmation, whether we're talking about supporting that which God calls evil, or indecent exposure of the flesh.

I never fully grasped the slippery slope concept until I see what we see today.

[Valerie]

I was dreading this month because I knew that we were going to be flooded with the whole pride month theme everywhere. I know Target and Kohl's have whole sections promoting this whether by clothing or other things even children's clothing. I immediately saw customers wearing rainbow t-shirts with words that you knew were not in support of the real meaning of God's rainbow

We were super blessed to see that our town did not jump on this bandwagon this year. Last year June 1st gay pride flags were put up all around our town square and the adjacent streets lined with them. They must have heard from a lot of people because it did not happen this year. Hopefully, people respectfully let the city know that they were not in favor of promoting a sin that led to the destruction of a couple of places in the Bible. Thankfully the people in our town care about the souls of those who are wrestling with this sin and don't want it to come across as something they should be proud of but set free from.

[JimFoxvog]

A proverb for Pride Month:

When pride appears, disgrace accompanies it,
but humility is present with wisdom.
--Proverbs 11.2

[Valerie]

A proverb for Pride Month:

When pride appears, disgrace accompanies it,
but humility is present with wisdom.
--Proverbs 11.2

Very true! Don't we see both go hand in hand.

Years ago in a small Bible study we were discussing how parents say "I'm so proud of you!". We were discussing if there would be a better way to convey that to our children because God nowhere says "I am proud of you"but he says I am pleased with you,-

Pride in Gods Word is always evil.

[Valerie]

Last week on Christian radio there was a discussion where people could call in. What prompted it was from that Christian film series The chosen. Apparently last week a picture was promoting the series and it was spotted the gay pride flag. That upset a lot of people because this is a Christian series meant to be a witness and lo and behold one of the crew members of the film had a gay pride flag on something I didn't see the picture but it was for the public eye to see.

So when comes the calls about it on the station I listen to. They wanted to know people's thoughts. Most people calling in were very upset about it just because it is a Christian series and that was conveying a message of support for the LGBTQ. There again the radio announcer was one who tended to use the word Pharisee to imply that's how we come across. A woman called in and was very angry at him for that implication because she said it was people like him that is causing this send to spread so rapidly- that we should make our position clear on what a sin and what is not sin. She ended up getting emotional because he seemed to try to manipulate the conversation to make her look bad.
Other people called in who agreed with her point of view and understood why she got emotional.
I didn't have very long to listen as I had to go to work but I didn't hear anyone call and support of "The Chosen" displaying that flag or symbol. Their defense of this is that they don't hire only Christians we do not discriminate. I think that part is fine with most people is using that particular picture with that little obvious symbol which could be mistakenly taken that the chosen supports LGBTQ.

The other radio announcer said "do we choose businesses for automotive needs based on whether they're Christians or not, or only go to Christian businesses for all kinds of things?"Here's the problem. He misses the whole point. Of course we don't. The point was this is a Christian witness publication and we conveyed by this display that Christians support lgbtq. Could he not recognize the difference? See how things can get twisted??

[Ernie]

When I was a kid, my mother loved rainbows and so did I because of the Noah's Ark story. But now we have to be pretty cautious about any clothing that's emblazoned with a rainbow, "pride", or other slogans that affirm sin.

What about the movement to "recapture" the rainbow as God originally intended? Is that a good way to fight fire with fire?

[Josh]

When I was a kid, my mother loved rainbows and so did I because of the Noah's Ark story. But now we have to be pretty cautious about any clothing that's emblazoned with a rainbow, "pride", or other slogans that affirm sin.

What about the movement to "recapture" the rainbow as God originally intended? Is that a good way to fight fire with fire?

My mother has been trying to do this for as long as I’ve been alive.

Perhaps we should as Christians have a “humility month”. Pride isn’t good for us even if we aren’t homosexuals. As far as rainbows, I feel content when one is in the sky to remember God won’t flood the earth again.

[Sudsy]

One popular slogan is “Go And Sin Some More”

Doesn't seem to be a "popular slogan". Seems to be part of a parody done by one group called "the Sin Sity Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence", according to your article. The article itself, at least, does not claim that this is a widespread, popular slogan.

That particular organisation is quite popular and indeed are one of the original founders of the entire PRIDE movement, so yes, I'd say their slogans and catchphrases are integral to the pride movement, and more importantly, represent a lot of what the "pride" movement is.

My overall question still stands, though. What exactly should be the relationship of the Christian to these kind of movements?

To the question as worded above -

There is a positive side to movements (especially the bowel one ).

The way I see it is where sin abounds grace abounds all the more Romans 5:20. Or another way of saying this is - “For wherever sin exists in abundance and is multiplying and constantly expanding, that is precisely the time and place where grace is poured out in a far greater, surpassing quantity.” Do we believe this or do we see ourselves in a losing battle as sin abounds around us ?

I think there is a time to 'wipe the dust off our feet and move on' as we read they did in the book Acts, however I believe this has to do with first sharing the life changing Gospel seeking those who have ears to hear. I believe the Holy Spirit guides us in what to say and when to say it, if we are listening to Him.

When I find this sort of thing troubling, it tests my faith in whether or not I believe in Romans 5:20. Regardless of worldly movements and how bad the situation around me looks to my natural eye, the grace of God is flowing downstream, and God is lavishly pouring it forth in abundant measure. But I won't experience this if I don't believe it.

When I read about how sin was abounding in Lot's day and in Noah's time and other times in history, we may not be living today in the worst of times and God has promised not to destroy man again for how great sin abounds and after with a flood reminds us of this with the raindow. So, until Christ returns, we should expect sin to expand in various ways. However, grace abounds all the more. To me, this means it is just as easy for an unbeliever to become a believer today as it was in early NT times or anytime since.

Do others here believe this ?