Quote Concerning Self-Defense

[silentreader]

This is a quote by Peter Hoover from a booklet possibly authored by Pilgrim Marbeck. I thought it was relevant to some of the 'discussions' here on MN.

Those who think they possess their goods (Eigentum) want the government to protect them. They think it necessary to use force to keep peace, to protect their own possessions and the possessions of others. In fact, all use of force comes from the possession of property. From the holding of property comes all government and force in the world. But the communities of Christ (die Gemeinen Christi) are not based on the holding of property, but on Christ. They are subject to Christ before all else.
Therefore those who are spiritual concern themselves with keeping spiritual peace, and those who are of the flesh concern themselves with holding onto their possession in a fleshly peace.
God only permits, he does not promote the use of worldly force. The use of force does not come from that which is good, but from that which is evil, and God only tolerates it out of necessity. God knows that if he would take the use of ungodly force out of this world, society would become totally chaotic. So for the good of his children who must also live in the world, he lets it go.

[Josh]

I fully agree. So I heartily endorse my neighbour’s right to defend himself and his property.

I also must joyfully accept the spoilation of my goods if another neighbour decides to rob them. He may have to face his other neighbours or the magistrate, though.

(I have needed some work on joyfully accepting the government spoilating my good through onerous levels of taxation.)

[HondurasKeiser]

This is a quote by Peter Hoover from a booklet possibly authored by Pilgrim Marbeck. I thought it was relevant to some of the 'discussions' here on MN.

Those who think they possess their goods (Eigentum) want the government to protect them. They think it necessary to use force to keep peace, to protect their own possessions and the possessions of others. In fact, all use of force comes from the possession of property. From the holding of property comes all government and force in the world. But the communities of Christ (die Gemeinen Christi) are not based on the holding of property, but on Christ. They are subject to Christ before all else.
Therefore those who are spiritual concern themselves with keeping spiritual peace, and those who are of the flesh concern themselves with holding onto their possession in a fleshly peace.
God only permits, he does not promote the use of worldly force. The use of force does not come from that which is good, but from that which is evil, and God only tolerates it out of necessity. God knows that if he would take the use of ungodly force out of this world, society would become totally chaotic. So for the good of his children who must also live in the world, he lets it go.

Very good quote.

[RZehr]

Interesting points made in the quote.

[PetrChelcicky]

Would be interesting to know more about the source.
1. Old Hebrew ethics distinguishes between a) body, b) reputation and c) property in the proper sense (including wives and children). Does the author use "property" as a general term for all three phenomena or only for the third?
2. The author assumes that - in the eyes of God - centralized (i.e. state) force is the smaller evil, because then force it at least used "orderly" and not "chaotic". This cannot be accepted as a general truth.There are "spontaneous orders" without a central force. Also a central force can sometimes do much more evil than decentralized or personal force would be able to do. And even if the state indeed uses force "orderly" and "moderate", he may use it extremely biased in favour of special interest groups.