The Anabaptist perception on pedigree and wealth?

[steve-in-kville]

At your current fellowship...

... How much influence and/or pull does one's pedigree or economic status have in church decisions or function?

I rolled both pedigree and wealth into one, as it would appear to me that one follows the other. Fun poll, keep it light. Vote and comment as needed.

[steve-in-kville]

I was not expecting a spread in the votes like that. Interesting....

[mike]

In our church, a vote is a vote, no matter who casts it, so I don't think it plays a role in decision making. Maybe they affect whether your ideas fly or not; I don't really know. Steve, what do you mean by function? Do you mean to ask whether pedigree/wealth have anything to do with whether you get selected for leadership or other roles in the church?

[steve-in-kville]

In our church, a vote is a vote, no matter who casts it, so I don't think it plays a role in decision making. Maybe they affect whether your ideas fly or not; I don't really know. Steve, what do you mean by function? Do you mean to ask whether pedigree/wealth have anything to do with whether you get selected for leadership or other roles in the church?

Anything, really.

What about Men's Meetings or "brother's meetings" where heavy decisions fall on a select few?

[mike]

In our church, a vote is a vote, no matter who casts it, so I don't think it plays a role in decision making. Maybe they affect whether your ideas fly or not; I don't really know. Steve, what do you mean by function? Do you mean to ask whether pedigree/wealth have anything to do with whether you get selected for leadership or other roles in the church?

Anything, really.

What about Men's Meetings or "brother's meetings" where heavy decisions fall on a select few?

"Heavy decisions" don't really seem to reach our men's meetings too often, which only happen 4x a year. We get to vote on things like the color of carpet, the time services will start, and elect teachers and janitors for their jobs. Most of the major decision-making seems to be done by the leadership at the local or conference level.

As to whether wealth or pedigree gets you leadership status, maybe pedigree depending on what that means, but wealth less so, I think. Out of our four ordained leaders, one is a business-owner, one has a chicken house and farm, one is retired from working as a lab technician, and one works managing a retail store. I don't know that wealth impacts a person's likelihood to be ordained, although financial problems might get you blacklisted depending on the reason.

As to pedigree, the way I would put it is that your perspective or worldview and your loyalty to the church/conference is probably more important than family connections. Leaders are voted in by the congregation then selected by lot (when more than one qualifies, which doesn't always happen, in which case that person is ordained), so basically having the trust and confidence of the church members is what gets you in leadership. However, leadership does have a sort of veto power. I heard of an ordination recently where someone was excluded from the lot due to "disagreements." That's all that was said, but I assume it was disagreements over church policies or positions.

[Josh]

In our church, a vote is a vote, no matter who casts it, so I don't think it plays a role in decision making. Maybe they affect whether your ideas fly or not; I don't really know. Steve, what do you mean by function? Do you mean to ask whether pedigree/wealth have anything to do with whether you get selected for leadership or other roles in the church?

Anything, really.

What about Men's Meetings or "brother's meetings" where heavy decisions fall on a select few?

What churches function this way?

In ours, we either have a general vote (all members), or a decision is made only by ordained men (deacons and ministers).

Ordination is done by all the members and by secret ballot. Pedigree and wealth only matter insofar as the general membership prefers to nominate such men.

For church jobs, again, the general membership nominates and votes for candidates. There is no special bias given to pedigree or wealth.

Amongst conference-wide committee appointments, those either are of ordained men (of which there is always a shortage, as there are more committee spots than people who wish to spend time travelling on serving on committees), or of the general membership - again, a committee member, or a teacher, etc. is more something that needs to be recruited for, not a lofty office.

I suspect many ordained men privately sometimes wish they didn’t have the burdens of office (not to mention their wives’ feelings).

[steve-in-kville]

What churches function this way?

Many smaller independent groups do. Typically there is a dominate family.

[Josh]

What churches function this way?

Many smaller independent groups do. Typically there is a dominate family.

I consider smaller independent groups a grave danger and warn seekers from getting mixed up with them.

[steve-in-kville]

What churches function this way?

Many smaller independent groups do. Typically there is a dominate family.

I consider smaller independent groups a grave danger and warn seekers from getting mixed up with them.

This I can agree on. We have extended family mixed up in such a group. They hold frequent "brother's meetings" whereas the content is restricted from the womenfolk. There is an obvious patriarch that controls the meetings. If he doesn't like the direction of the discussion (i.e. not his preference), the subject at hand gets tabled until the next meeting.

[Josh]

Many smaller independent groups do. Typically there is a dominate family.

I consider smaller independent groups a grave danger and warn seekers from getting mixed up with them.

This I can agree on. We have extended family mixed up in such a group. They hold frequent "brother's meetings" whereas the content is restricted from the womenfolk. There is an obvious patriarch that controls the meetings. If he doesn't like the direction of the discussion (i.e. not his preference), the subject at hand gets tabled until the next meeting.

In our circles women do vote although sometimes all the women or all of the youth girls will abstain and then the deacon running the meeting simply only counts the men’s side. This is common for minor issues such as changing the time of the next evening service, etc.

If the vote is close or is about an important matter sometimes the deacon will ask for the ladies’ side to please vote.

We have a plural ministry in equal footing so tabling an issue would require all the ministers and deacons to conspire to do so. If the leadership does something without asking the membership it does not go well. This happened a few years ago when they switched the hotline chats from WhatsApp to Signal. It wasn’t a popular move and eventually was reversed at an “impromptu” men’s meeting when everyone was doing yard work in the church yard. (Unfortunately some people perceived me as being behind the change; I wasn’t.)

Generally we don’t have men’s meetings either. I think assembling the whole membership is better. As I understand it this is how German Baptists do things now too.