Differences between Holdeman and Beachy Amish

[ken_sylvania]

Try going to google.com and then put in these keywords: “cma denomination general counsel”

That brings up this guy. Who was a corporate and estate attorney before taking on the role of General Counsel of CMA: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gary-friese ... 20LinkedIn

Try it again with "cma denomination general council"

[Josh]

Google suggested a "Did you mean..." and I just clicked that.

[Sudsy]

Good to hear that women are getting into pastoral roles even through "the back door'. Pentecostals and Salvation Army and others realized years ago that God blesses and works through women just as He does through men. I grew up with a lady pastor who preached and taught many in becoming Christians including my own family. Not to say all women pastors are called but neither are men. What some regard as a slippery slope in this area, others of us regard as a step forward in God buiding His Kingdom. I'm glad to see the Mennonite Brethren giving more women leadership roles and last Sunday's sermon by a lady from the congregation was fantastic. Watched it twice.

My 2 cents supporting any egalitarians here.

[Josh]

Good to hear that women are getting into pastoral roles even through "the back door'.

I don't think it's good to bring gradual changes into a group of churches by engaging in deceit and half-truths, which is what the progression JM described was. The original proposals that were accepted 15 years ago were done explictly stating it was not just a way to get women ordained as pastors or to start preaching...

... yet that's what happened.

Pentecostals and Salvation Army and others realized years ago that God blesses and works through women just as He does through men. I grew up with a lady pastor who preached and taught many in becoming Christians including my own family. Not to say all women pastors are called but neither are men. What some regard as a slippery slope in this area, others of us regard as a step forward in God buiding His Kingdom. I'm glad to see the Mennonite Brethren giving more women leadership roles and last Sunday's sermon by a lady from the congregation was fantastic. Watched it twice.

My 2 cents supporting any egalitarians here.

I will stick with what Paul said: he said he does not allow a woman to exercise authority over a man. That excludes the ordained offices of deacon, elder, presbyter, priest, bishop, minister, pastor, whatever you want to call it. In fact, Paul said he expects women to be quiet in the churches.

Of course, any of us laypeople may sometimes find we need to teach and engage in other natural and spiritual gifts. Nobody has said women can't do that. They just are not to enter the ordained offices as the Bible makes it very clear those roles are for men. Of course, an ordained man's wife often serves just as much as he does (and it seems ordained men should be married, as the Bible says they are "the husband of one wife" and with children who are not unruly).

[Judas Maccabeus]

Some of the best missionaries have known are women. In plain circles, women, who are more recognizable than men for the most part are our ambassadors. They wind up answering the questions in the supermarket, particularly if you do not live in a very plain area.

I really am not concerned about what the Salvation Army does…..at least they are up front about it.

[mrbilliam]

Good to hear that women are getting into pastoral roles even through "the back door'. Pentecostals and Salvation Army and others realized years ago that God blesses and works through women just as He does through men. I grew up with a lady pastor who preached and taught many in becoming Christians including my own family. Not to say all women pastors are called but neither are men. What some regard as a slippery slope in this area, others of us regard as a step forward in God buiding His Kingdom. I'm glad to see the Mennonite Brethren giving more women leadership roles and last Sunday's sermon by a lady from the congregation was fantastic. Watched it twice.

My 2 cents supporting any egalitarians here.

I 100% disagree as does the holy scripture. Women are not to be pastors and teachers according the the scriptures and for nearly 1800 years of Christianity. Indeed God can work through women, but not in a pastoral role.

This defies the very instructions in the Bible.

[Valerie]

Good to hear that women are getting into pastoral roles even through "the back door'. Pentecostals and Salvation Army and others realized years ago that God blesses and works through women just as He does through men. I grew up with a lady pastor who preached and taught many in becoming Christians including my own family. Not to say all women pastors are called but neither are men. What some regard as a slippery slope in this area, others of us regard as a step forward in God buiding His Kingdom. I'm glad to see the Mennonite Brethren giving more women leadership roles and last Sunday's sermon by a lady from the congregation was fantastic. Watched it twice.

My 2 cents supporting any egalitarians here.

I 100% disagree as does the holy scripture. Women are not to be pastors and teachers according the the scriptures and for nearly 1800 years of Christianity. Indeed God can work through women, but not in a pastoral role.

This defies the very instructions in the Bible.

Agreed. I'm thankful for my church still takes this position. Once a year we have a couple fetence inviting pastors from all over the country (& other countries?) and it's huge but not 1 woman in the pastoral attendance. However women ate appre opted for many other roles as God gives them gifts as well. As soon. Ad I hear a denominationn has drifted from Scripture in this area I no longer get would trust the Holy Spirit is guiding

[Josh]

Agreed. I'm thankful for my church still takes this position. Once a year we have a couple fetence inviting pastors from all over the country (& other countries?) and it's huge but not 1 woman in the pastoral attendance. However women ate appre opted for many other roles as God gives them gifts as well. As soon. Ad I hear a denominationn has drifted from Scripture in this area I no longer get would trust the Holy Spirit is guiding

Which is yet another reason I don't trust Pentecostal and charismatic denominations, as they've had women leaders since their beginnings at Azusa Street.

[Valerie]

Agreed. I'm thankful for my church still takes this position. Once a year we have a couple fetence inviting pastors from all over the country (& other countries?) and it's huge but not 1 woman in the pastoral attendance. However women ate appre opted for many other roles as God gives them gifts as well. As soon. Ad I hear a denominationn has drifted from Scripture in this area I no longer get would trust the Holy Spirit is guiding

Which is yet another reason I don't trust Pentecostal and charismatic denominations, as they've had women leaders since their beginnings at Azusa Street.

I had not even realized that u til decades being g in these congregations. Np e of the Ppentecosyal or Charismatic churches I and we were part of had any wo.en ad pastors or elders. Then co.e ro find out the history of Foursquare- well one should look I to the history of a denomination.

[Sudsy]

I thought I would get some push back on the woman pastor thing.

However, I will go with the Anabaptist Greg Boyd and others like N.T. Wright with the egalitarian view. My own experience with a woman pastor leading us and see how God especially has used women in missionary, lead pastor roles to further His Kingdom is adequate proof to me that what Paul wrote in that time and place was appropriate for them but not for everyone in all times and places. Just as foot washing and other early church practises are not required for today. I look forward to more women getting involved teaching men in ministry in pastoral roles.

Thats all I will say on this as this issue will not be solved here.