Modesty a woman’s opinion?

[Valerie]

My attempt at short:
Nothing too tight too low or too short (meaning too revealing) or too expensive or too loud (meaning drawing attention or unnecessary expense) thereby being a Christian witness.

[Neto]

See underlined. Obvious, we men do not like restrictions even when asked politely.

Pretty much all the ladies that will respond have responded. You can post your thoughts. With the exception of the final question which I don’t see how you as a male can respond to.

OK, modesty is an issue between a believer and God and if one is seeking the guidance of the Holy Spirit in what is acceptable to God regarding modesty, then I believe they will know when they cross the line. I do not agree with any group of believers legislating modesty for those they fellowship with. As a believer matures spiritually, they will be taught by the Spirit what is and what is not modest and they are responsible to obey the Spirit's guidance. Stated another way 'personal conviction'.

If another believer is not living to one's personal convictions on what is modest, then show genuine love toward them and pray for them. They could be advanced spiritually in some other area than we are and we need the same kind of response from them. I don't believe we are to mandate what some might call 'holiness standards' that, imo, interfere with personal convictions by the Holy Spirit. In my experience, this legislating produces a 'holier-than-thou' attitude between varied church groups.

This, I believe, is the approach taken by the MB church I attended and is likely regarded as one of those 'liberal' type churches. The area of what is 'modest' and any rules around it are not an area explicitly defined by the local fellowship.

It was taught in the MB congregation I grew up in, but I don't know about now, as I have only visited there for a Sunday here and there in the last 20 years. I do know, however (from my Mom), that although many of the pastors over the past 25 years or so have not been from MB background, or taken pastoral training in MB schools, that the current pastor has taken a keen interest in the heritage of the congregation, and is bringing emphasis to "traditional" MB values.

As to what a Christian's woman's view is regarding modesty as practiced by Christian men, when I was in Bible college a fellow student (a girl) asked me to get rid of a certain pair of pants I had, that were "too tight". I'm glad that we were good enough friends that she felt free to tell me that, because I had no idea.

[Valerie]

I was involved in helping out in the ministry for people with strongholds they were trying to overcome. There were all kinds of strongholds including alcoholism, drugs, porn, shopping excessively, any area where someone needed support and help. I remember one of the men in the group conveying that one of the ladies on the worship team should not be wearing the tight shirt she was wearing because it was too revealing of her voluptuous figure. He did not realize that Grandpa was in the room helping out in this ministry too. He got very defensive of his granddaughter. My husband had an issue with women wearing tight jeans right in front of us as did other people. I don't know if a lot of Christian women seek the Holy Spirit on what to wear. Even to church. In the summer they put in our church bulletin the passage on modesty and asked women to abstain from wearing shorts. They might as well not have put it in the bulletin so you not only not have the holy Spirit convicting people but when they have to put it in the bulletin and it's still ignored what does that mean? (This was not at our present Church)

[temporal1]

I was involved in helping out in the ministry for people with strongholds they were trying to overcome. There were all kinds of strongholds including alcoholism, drugs, porn, shopping excessively, any area where someone needed support and help. I remember one of the men in the group conveying that one of the ladies on the worship team should not be wearing the tight shirt she was wearing because it was too revealing of her voluptuous figure. He did not realize that Grandpa was in the room helping out in this ministry too. He got very defensive of his granddaughter. My husband had an issue with women wearing tight jeans right in front of us as did other people.

I don't know if a lot of Christian women seek the Holy Spirit on what to wear. Even to church.

In the summer they put in our church bulletin the passage on modesty and asked women to abstain from wearing shorts.
They might as well not have put it in the bulletin so you not only not have the holy Spirit convicting people but when they have to put it in the bulletin and it's still ignored what does that mean? (This was not at our present Church)

i’ve learned, in the world, “modesty” is a laughable word, if not hated.
This is true, now even for pregnant women, advanced stages. Bare pregnant bellies are not uncommon in public.

There is a lack of education that modesty should even be a consideration.

Having said that, it’s interesting how a little education can go a long way in improvement. To me, this reflects there is a God-given consciousness that can be brought out. It’s important not to give up hope.

Hollywood and the music industry are evil in what they push onto children and young people. Evil and ugly.

[steve-in-kville]

There is a lack of education that modesty should even be a consideration.

Not sure the status of this thread, but here goes...

Society isn't just lacking modesty but respect as well. Seeing young ladies in their pajamas at the grocery store is one thing. Now I'm seeing grown men doing it too. And yoga pants... don't get me started on that subject...

[Sudsy]

Pretty much all the ladies that will respond have responded. You can post your thoughts. With the exception of the final question which I don’t see how you as a male can respond to.

OK, modesty is an issue between a believer and God and if one is seeking the guidance of the Holy Spirit in what is acceptable to God regarding modesty, then I believe they will know when they cross the line. I do not agree with any group of believers legislating modesty for those they fellowship with. As a believer matures spiritually, they will be taught by the Spirit what is and what is not modest and they are responsible to obey the Spirit's guidance. Stated another way 'personal conviction'.

If another believer is not living to one's personal convictions on what is modest, then show genuine love toward them and pray for them. They could be advanced spiritually in some other area than we are and we need the same kind of response from them. I don't believe we are to mandate what some might call 'holiness standards' that, imo, interfere with personal convictions by the Holy Spirit. In my experience, this legislating produces a 'holier-than-thou' attitude between varied church groups.

This, I believe, is the approach taken by the MB church I attended and is likely regarded as one of those 'liberal' type churches. The area of what is 'modest' and any rules around it are not an area explicitly defined by the local fellowship.

It was taught in the MB congregation I grew up in, but I don't know about now, as I have only visited there for a Sunday here and there in the last 20 years. I do know, however (from my Mom), that although many of the pastors over the past 25 years or so have not been from MB background, or taken pastoral training in MB schools, that the current pastor has taken a keen interest in the heritage of the congregation, and is bringing emphasis to "traditional" MB values.

As to what a Christian's woman's view is regarding modesty as practiced by Christian men, when I was in Bible college a fellow student (a girl) asked me to get rid of a certain pair of pants I had, that were "too tight". I'm glad that we were good enough friends that she felt free to tell me that, because I had no idea.

I don't know what other MB churches are doing regarding modest dress but our local MB church would likely shock some visitors that attend from backgrounds like you and I were raised in. Same goes for our local Pentecostal church. It seems when 'casual dress' began to be allowed, it has got to be 'don't make dress an issue that might keep people from church'. Females in the music bands will wear stylish blue jeans with torn out knees, sleeveless blouses, jewelry of sorts, short skirts that in my youth would never be acceptable to wear on the platform leading the singing. And the young men wear ball caps, sometimes backwards as well as shirts with various advertising on them. Basically, it is 'come in whatever you wear on a daily basis'. However, I do believe a bathing suit might be where a line is drawn.

Personally, although I am not for church dress rules, I still believe the subject of dress should be preached in considering areas of drawing attention to oneself and not God and being guided by the Spirit in what to wear when coming together for worship and fellowship. Also some preaching on being guided by the Spirit in this area outside the church. I just don't agree with extra biblical requirements explicitly spelled out regarding dress.

Seems to me in scripture the emphasis is to be known for our good works and not for how attractive we make ourselves using dress. I know others would see this view as too much freedom.

[Neto]

OK, modesty is an issue between a believer and God and if one is seeking the guidance of the Holy Spirit in what is acceptable to God regarding modesty, then I believe they will know when they cross the line. I do not agree with any group of believers legislating modesty for those they fellowship with. As a believer matures spiritually, they will be taught by the Spirit what is and what is not modest and they are responsible to obey the Spirit's guidance. Stated another way 'personal conviction'.

If another believer is not living to one's personal convictions on what is modest, then show genuine love toward them and pray for them. They could be advanced spiritually in some other area than we are and we need the same kind of response from them. I don't believe we are to mandate what some might call 'holiness standards' that, imo, interfere with personal convictions by the Holy Spirit. In my experience, this legislating produces a 'holier-than-thou' attitude between varied church groups.

This, I believe, is the approach taken by the MB church I attended and is likely regarded as one of those 'liberal' type churches. The area of what is 'modest' and any rules around it are not an area explicitly defined by the local fellowship.

It was taught in the MB congregation I grew up in, but I don't know about now, as I have only visited there for a Sunday here and there in the last 20 years. I do know, however (from my Mom), that although many of the pastors over the past 25 years or so have not been from MB background, or taken pastoral training in MB schools, that the current pastor has taken a keen interest in the heritage of the congregation, and is bringing emphasis to "traditional" MB values.

As to what a Christian's woman's view is regarding modesty as practiced by Christian men, when I was in Bible college a fellow student (a girl) asked me to get rid of a certain pair of pants I had, that were "too tight". I'm glad that we were good enough friends that she felt free to tell me that, because I had no idea.

I don't know what other MB churches are doing regarding modest dress but our local MB church would likely shock some visitors that attend from backgrounds like you and I were raised in. Same goes for our local Pentecostal church. It seems when 'casual dress' began to be allowed, it has got to be 'don't make dress an issue that might keep people from church'. Females in the music bands will wear stylish blue jeans with torn out knees, sleeveless blouses, jewelry of sorts, short skirts that in my youth would never be acceptable to wear on the platform leading the singing. And the young men wear ball caps, sometimes backwards as well as shirts with various advertising on them. Basically, it is 'come in whatever you wear on a daily basis'. However, I do believe a bathing suit might be where a line is drawn.

Personally, although I am not for church dress rules, I still believe the subject of dress should be preached in considering areas of drawing attention to oneself and not God and being guided by the Spirit in what to wear when coming together for worship and fellowship. Also some preaching on being guided by the Spirit in this area outside the church. I just don't agree with extra biblical requirements explicitly spelled out regarding dress.

Seems to me in scripture the emphasis is to be known for our good works and not for how attractive we make ourselves using dress. I know others would see this view as too much freedom.

You mentioned that this is also a problem in the Pentecostal congregations here in North America. It is interesting that the most conservative church groups in Brazil are the Pentecostal ones - long dresses & long hair for the sisters, long pants for the men. (And this in a culture that for the most part celebrates nudity.)

[Sudsy]

It was taught in the MB congregation I grew up in, but I don't know about now, as I have only visited there for a Sunday here and there in the last 20 years. I do know, however (from my Mom), that although many of the pastors over the past 25 years or so have not been from MB background, or taken pastoral training in MB schools, that the current pastor has taken a keen interest in the heritage of the congregation, and is bringing emphasis to "traditional" MB values.

As to what a Christian's woman's view is regarding modesty as practiced by Christian men, when I was in Bible college a fellow student (a girl) asked me to get rid of a certain pair of pants I had, that were "too tight". I'm glad that we were good enough friends that she felt free to tell me that, because I had no idea.

I don't know what other MB churches are doing regarding modest dress but our local MB church would likely shock some visitors that attend from backgrounds like you and I were raised in. Same goes for our local Pentecostal church. It seems when 'casual dress' began to be allowed, it has got to be 'don't make dress an issue that might keep people from church'. Females in the music bands will wear stylish blue jeans with torn out knees, sleeveless blouses, jewelry of sorts, short skirts that in my youth would never be acceptable to wear on the platform leading the singing. And the young men wear ball caps, sometimes backwards as well as shirts with various advertising on them. Basically, it is 'come in whatever you wear on a daily basis'. However, I do believe a bathing suit might be where a line is drawn.

Personally, although I am not for church dress rules, I still believe the subject of dress should be preached in considering areas of drawing attention to oneself and not God and being guided by the Spirit in what to wear when coming together for worship and fellowship. Also some preaching on being guided by the Spirit in this area outside the church. I just don't agree with extra biblical requirements explicitly spelled out regarding dress.

Seems to me in scripture the emphasis is to be known for our good works and not for how attractive we make ourselves using dress. I know others would see this view as too much freedom.

You mentioned that this is also a problem in the Pentecostal congregations here in North America. It is interesting that the most conservative church groups in Brazil are the Pentecostal ones - long dresses & long hair for the sisters, long pants for the men. (And this in a culture that for the most part celebrates nudity.)

Yes it is interesting. There are still Pentecostals like the Oneness Pentecostals and other Holiness Pentecostals that are quite moderate and have expectations on modest dress but it seems to me the fast growing Pentecostals may be contributing their growth to relating more to the unchurched using various means. They use various means to draw in people that years ago would be considered 'worldly' means. With holding unto an expectation of tithing a minimum of 10%, they have the funds to have church facilities to accommodate the comforts of many. In our local Pentecostal church they have things like a giant TV screen in an area separate from the main seating where those who wish to can watch the service while eating and drinking their favorite snacks. There is some form of entertainment for every age level.

But perhaps if some are truly getting born again, it may be better than churches that are stuck in traditions that no unchurched cares to visit. Paul said something like he became like a Jew to win Jews for Jesus and I have heard this used as an example of relating to the unchurched so they will come and hear what is being preached. I know some would question the Gospel being preached and the conversions being produced but I am not going to conclude all of the 'new converts' are phony converts.

However, for myself at my age, I am more drawn to an evangelical Salvation Army group that sees evangelism as more of an outside the local church activity and the fellowship in the local church less 'worldly attractive'. So, at present I don't attend a local church but I may shop around yet before I kick the bucket.

[Josh]

But perhaps if some are truly getting born again, it may be better than churches that are stuck in traditions that no unchurched cares to visit.

This is how I feel about my local Oneness Apostolics. They seem to be doing a very good job of winning converts from the people in town, gathering up those in the "highways and byways". If people are hearing the good news and accepting Jesus, that is a good thing for all of us.

Edit - Sudsy and I both went a bit off topic.

Back to the topic at hand, my wife doesn't care to post here (although she certainly does read), and her point of view is she usually just likes to ask me if something is modest enough or not. She likes that better than before she was married and her to make judgment calls herself or ask a friend/relative. A frequent concern is how to modestly nurse babies as normalising breastfeeding is an important value to her, but so is doing so modestly.

[Valerie]

[

You mentioned that this is also a problem in the Pentecostal congregations here in North America. It is interesting that the most conservative church groups in Brazil are the Pentecostal ones - long dresses & long hair for the sisters, long pants for the men. (And this in a culture that for the most part celebrates nudity.)

My mother was born in 1937. She said when she was in high school the Pentecostal girls were exempted from wearing the gym clothes for P. E. Because they were not allowed to wear shorts. Pentecostals came from the Holiness movement era and until the "Jesus Movement" of the 70s, Modesty was practiced by all Christians because the holy Spirit had already guided the church at Large to dress modestly. So where did the Hy Spirit go when a Christian thinks nothing of stumbling others by dressing in ways that draw attention? I remember a sister in the Lord who dressed as best she could on Sundays because she said I'm going to worship the King!

Makes me mindful of Malachi 1:6-8