Simple Questions About Head Coverings

Christian ethics and theology with an Anabaptist perspective
Neto
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Re: Simple Questions About Head Coverings

Post by Neto »

Heirbyadoption wrote:
Neto wrote: I didn't go back & check, but I think your quote is from at least two different people. Sudsy does not live in Holmes County, Ohio. I think I wrote some parts of that, and he wrote other parts. But if you are suggesting that the veiling is a hair covering, and not a head covering, then you have some words that need to be changed in your Greek text.
Could you do me the honor of explaining/expanding on that thought briefly? Thanks.
I just meant that in every verse where it speaks of the veiling, it specifically uses the word translated as 'head', not as 'hair', as the thing to be covered. I know that a lot of people think that because the hair is a woman's glory, that it should be covered, so that it does not detract from bringing glory to God. It may be a nice thought, but the text does not say that. I guess vs 6 is the closest it comes to saying that.
"If a woman does not cover her head, then she should have her hair cut off, and if it is disgraceful for her to have her head shaven, then she should cover her head."
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Sudsy
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Re: Simple Questions About Head Coverings

Post by Sudsy »

Heirbyadoption wrote: Somehow I dropped your name instead of Neto's. It was his comment. I apologize.
I didn't think I was that smart. :) Apology accepted.
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Neto
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Re: Simple Questions About Head Coverings

Post by Neto »

HeirByAdoption, Because my offense was public, I am publicly apologizing for the tone of my response to you on Friday morning. I had just gone through a long meeting at our congregation the night before (working on a committee toward a potential branch congregation), and it was filled with the most conflict I have ever experienced in my whole life (in a Christian context). I was (and am) very grieved, and I acted in cynicism here on the forum, toward your post. I am sorry that I responded in that callused and unkind manner. Blessings to you.
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Heirbyadoption
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Re: Simple Questions About Head Coverings

Post by Heirbyadoption »

Neto wrote:HeirByAdoption, Because my offense was public, I am publicly apologizing for the tone of my response to you on Friday morning. I had just gone through a long meeting at our congregation the night before (working on a committee toward a potential branch congregation), and it was filled with the most conflict I have ever experienced in my whole life (in a Christian context). I was (and am) very grieved, and I acted in cynicism here on the forum, toward your post. I am sorry that I responded in that callused and unkind manner. Blessings to you.
All is forgiven. If you don't mind though, I WOULD like to address your hair vs head thoughts. Might be tomight or tomorrow tho. Blessings to you in return.
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Josh
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Re: Simple Questions About Head Coverings

Post by Josh »

Heirbyadoption wrote:All is forgiven. If you don't mind though, I WOULD like to address your hair vs head thoughts. Might be tomight or tomorrow tho. Blessings to you in return.
I'd like to hear this, particularly for the purpose of discussing it with some friends of mine who have very extreme views on 1 Co. 11 such that the think a woman needs to cover her entire head, much like the Muslim hijab.
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Sudsy
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Re: Simple Questions About Head Coverings

Post by Sudsy »

Adam wrote:I want to ask a few simple questions about head coverings. I do not want to debate this topic in this thread. Rather I just want simple, straightforward answers to the following questions:

Are there Conservative Anabaptist Churches (or other churches for that matter) that teach and practice that the head covering is only required to be worn during worship services? If so, are such churches found within a particular denomination/conference or are they more independent? In general, how do other Conservative Anabaptist churches feel about churches that teach that the head covering only needs to be worn during worship services?
Nice try but seems like the questions you asked have not been adhered to. And I thought I was bad at bunny trails. :lol:
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Neto
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Re: Simple Questions About Head Coverings

Post by Neto »

Sudsy wrote:
Adam wrote:I want to ask a few simple questions about head coverings. I do not want to debate this topic in this thread. Rather I just want simple, straightforward answers to the following questions:

Are there Conservative Anabaptist Churches (or other churches for that matter) that teach and practice that the head covering is only required to be worn during worship services? If so, are such churches found within a particular denomination/conference or are they more independent? In general, how do other Conservative Anabaptist churches feel about churches that teach that the head covering only needs to be worn during worship services?
Nice try but seems like the questions you asked have not been adhered to. And I thought I was bad at bunny trails. :lol:
:oops: I guess I was part of that bunny trailing. But as to the original question, second part: Recently a group of us at our congregation have been meeting with the idea of starting a branch congregation, and I can say from conversations in our committee that at least some people feel strongly that wearing the head covering only for services is an early step which will soon result in the total loss of the practice (and then on to other problems from there). They would say that it is important for a consistent witness in the community to do so. My wife would say that while she does not believe that it is required by Scripture, she would never consider not wearing a veiling during the week. It is a deeply held part of the culture here, and not wearing it would create unnecessary misunderstandings.
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Valerie
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Re: Simple Questions About Head Coverings

Post by Valerie »

Neto wrote:
Sudsy wrote:
Adam wrote:I want to ask a few simple questions about head coverings. I do not want to debate this topic in this thread. Rather I just want simple, straightforward answers to the following questions:

Are there Conservative Anabaptist Churches (or other churches for that matter) that teach and practice that the head covering is only required to be worn during worship services? If so, are such churches found within a particular denomination/conference or are they more independent? In general, how do other Conservative Anabaptist churches feel about churches that teach that the head covering only needs to be worn during worship services?
Nice try but seems like the questions you asked have not been adhered to. And I thought I was bad at bunny trails. :lol:
:oops: I guess I was part of that bunny trailing. But as to the original question, second part: Recently a group of us at our congregation have been meeting with the idea of starting a branch congregation, and I can say from conversations in our committee that at least some people feel strongly that wearing the head covering only for services is an early step which will soon result in the total loss of the practice (and then on to other problems from there). They would say that it is important for a consistent witness in the community to do so. My wife would say that while she does not believe that it is required by Scripture, she would never consider not wearing a veiling during the week. It is a deeply held part of the culture here, and not wearing it would create unnecessary misunderstandings.
That's really tough- I understand why your wife feels that way- it is difficult for me as well- going from not understanding covering or practicing at all, to wearing one all the time ,to then finding out it was really only required during worship- to not wanting confusion if I dropped it outside of worship and how to 'explain' that then- so there are times if I flee the house without one I don't feel the conviction about it necessarily- but would if I didn't wear one in Church- however- I do feel a conviction about not wanting to confuse people by being inconsistent. By the way, I don't think that if the decision was made to wear one in worship service only, would lead to dropping it altogether- gaining more understanding on it for the meeting together with the assembly in worship, makes it seem more deeply understood-, Neto- I think you are familiar with Wayne Weaver's church- Oasis Tabernacle- I believe (since he was former Amish) he had discarded the covering teaching when he left Amish it seems if I understood right- (like many do) and then, learned somehow the real meaning/practice, and somehow he must have conveyed this to his congregation- and then they started veiling (I mean REALLY veiling!) but if I'm not mistaken, the women don't veil outside of Church. To me this indicates a humbling by him to have been mistaken, brought the correction into his own congregation, and they seemed to have embraced veiling- are you familiar with them?
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Josh
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Re: Simple Questions About Head Coverings

Post by Josh »

I am familiar with Oasis. They do not practice the veiling consistently even in worship and generally are moving in a more worldly direction. (This is not just Oasis where this kind of change happens - it happens elsewhere.) They also have adopted Pentecostal theology, which is not Anabaptist.

This isn't meant as a criticism - just an observation.

[quoteBy the way, I don't think that if the decision was made to wear one in worship service only, would lead to dropping it altogether- gaining more understanding on it for the meeting together with the assembly in worship, makes it seem more deeply understood][/quote]

Pretty much all of us are familiar with a church that relaxed its standards on the veiling and taught it's required for worship only. And the pattern, every single time, is that the younger generation stops wearing it during even worship, despite the best teaching from the pulpit.

Valerie, try to think about what it would take for your daughters and granddaughters to consistently practice the veiling during worship & prayer. Young people often aren't swayed by theological treatises when they are young. A strong culture often helps them stay on the right path, and when they are older (20s), a deeper theological understanding can develop.
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JimFoxvog
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Re: Simple Questions About Head Coverings

Post by JimFoxvog »

Neto wrote:I can say from conversations in our committee that at least some people feel strongly that wearing the head covering only for services is an early step which will soon result in the total loss of the practice (and then on to other problems from there).
1 Corinthians parallels men not covering their head with women covering their heads. Does this occur when men take off their hats for worship or prayer, but not the rest of the time?
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