Josh wrote:Sudsy wrote:Same old point
- Anabaptists, generally, have much concern about women and how they need to obey the "head piece" (most are not head coverings, imo) and men with their 'hats off' when praying, yet 1 Timothy 2:8 says "Therefore I want the men everywhere to pray, lifting up holy hands without anger or disputing." and it is quickly passed over as perhaps a cultural practise to lift up our hands in prayer everywhere. If everywhere means everywhere then I guess saying grace before a meal in restaurant would be included. Haven't seen or heard of Anabaptist men lifting up their hands every time in prayer whether inside or outside of the local church. Not a very consistent way of obeying scripture, right ?
And I suspect, as usual, this post will be ignored.
It's not being ignored, Sudsy, but this is a point you make over and over, but that's one verse that is communicating something quite specific about how the writer wants men to pray. "Lifting up holy hands" is not described as a tradition nor as an ordinance, or something the writer is rebuking the church to which he is writing for not obeying.
1 Corinthians 11 is different. It is extremely clear that Paul is describing a tradition he already laid down for the church, and is rebuking them for not following it. It is a lot more than just 1 verse. And right after that, he talks about communion. I don't know of anyone who thinks the bread & cup are optional symbols (other than Quakers I guess) or just cultural things that we don't need to bother with today.
OK, if the lifting of hands is not a tradition or ordinance or a rebuke, then is it still not a command ? Seems the following verses are taken quite literally regarding how women should be " I desire then that in every place the men should pray, lifting holy hands without anger or quarreling;
likewise also that women should adorn themselves in respectable apparel, with modesty and self-control, not with braided hair and gold or pearls or costly attire, but with what is proper for women who profess godliness—with good works. Let a woman learn quietly with all submissiveness. I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet."
So, why do some Anabaptists, likely the church you attend, apply a literal application to what women are to do and yet not men ? Notice what I bolded, the word 'likewise'.