Simple Questions About Head Coverings

[Wade]

I see prayer also as a time of communing with God. And since we read in the scripture to pray without ceasing it seems good to keep biblical application consistent with how much we desire to commune with God.

[Valerie]

I never understood why Mennonite women in our area (and we have many types of Mennonites) who wear a head piece 24/7 because they might pray at any point in the day, have husbands that don't go without a hat 24/7 for the same reason. The women could easily pull out a head piece of sorts when they were to pray outside of church just as easy as a man can remove his hat when he wants to pray outside the church. Seems there is two sets of practises for men and for women involving the same topic. To be consistent men should never wear a hat to be ready to pray at all times like the women.

There are at least 3 of the largest Mennonite groups in our area that do not, as a group, wear a head covering. Our MB church being one of them. But those individuals who chose to wear one are not a problem. Treated more as a Romans 14 issue.

The book Glories Seen & Unseen: A Study of the Head Covering provides good perspective on the issue of 24/7 wearing of head coverings by women and uncovered heads by men.

That's a great book, and helped us to prayerfully make & understand the decision for me to start covering- I have passed it out to several people- one woman also started covering and passed the book on too- it is helpful since there is confusion about the interpretation of 1 Cor 11 so this book really helps.

By the way Adam, here's a link to Scroll Publishing- you can order certain books from them and get a discount if you plan on passing the books out- Glories Seen & Unseen is one of those books-

http://www.scrollpublishing.com/store/index.html

[Valerie]

I have asked the question about men being covered more than once; I always feel as though I should not wear my hat when driving so I am free to pray. I am told that our hat does not count - it is a weather protection. If we need to pray, there is nothing wrong with praying with our hat on our head. I am still not comfortable with this idea of praying while covered.

But hats in the OOM setting are more than a weather protection. I heard one of your ministers preach on 1 Corinthians 11 at a wedding. He made quite an issue about the need for men to wear the black hat. [I can't remember how he managed to work that into that scripture -- it was a pretty lame connection as I recall.] Someone approached me afterwards about it, since he knew I didn't wear one. This is the thought I went to -- if you are going to teach it from that perspective, it is no longer a mere weather protection, but a sign covering. And I feel it is wrong for a man to wear a sign covering.

If it is cold enough for me to need a hat here in the west, I want something a lot warmer than those black hats are.

When we go to the Haiti Benefit Auction, it is not just OO men who wear a hat- there were almost as many men distinctive uniform hats among the various Anabaptists sects at the auction, as there were women- I think MAYBE the German Baptists men wear a small black hat? Anyone?

[Valerie]

I want to ask a few simple questions about head coverings. I do not want to debate this topic in this thread. Rather I just want simple, straightforward answers to the following questions:

Are there Conservative Anabaptist Churches (or other churches for that matter) that teach and practice that the head covering is only required to be worn during worship services? If so, are such churches found within a particular denomination/conference or are they more independent? In general, how do other Conservative Anabaptist churches feel about churches that teach that the head covering only needs to be worn during worship services?

A former Amish man who became a pastor would be considered "Independent" and as far as I know he would be more of the Anabaptist persuasion- the women in his church from what I understand, only veil during church-

here's a link showing them- they do not have 'uniform regulated' veils, but remind me more of the way Orthodox Christian women cover- but I notice some Mennonite & Amish women in the congregation still wear what they had been used to:



Actually Adam, with you being Assembly of God- this would probably be the closest 'appearance' a congregation in your denomination could consider because they are not 'uniform' in dress or covering-
(GC Donner on here may be able to explain this church better- if he sees this- as he used to be a part of it)

[silentreader]

I have asked the question about men being covered more than once; I always feel as though I should not wear my hat when driving so I am free to pray. I am told that our hat does not count - it is a weather protection. If we need to pray, there is nothing wrong with praying with our hat on our head. I am still not comfortable with this idea of praying while covered.

No offence intended, HO, but in my opinion in your (OOM) setting both the black hat for men and the black bonnet for women have become a cultural or denominational identifier, and neither of them has anything to do with the principle behind 1Cor 11.

[Judas Maccabeus]

Just after my wife & I married we lived in South Dallas for one school year, while she finished up SIL (for the non-WBT people, that is the linguistics training course). We attended a Plymouth Brethren congregation, and the practice there was that the women who did not wear a hat (or a veiling like my wife) put some type of head covering on when they came in, or for those who covered their faces as well, only for prayer. (I don't know a great deal about this group as a whole, so I don't know how they would fit in terms of being anabaptist.)

They are not Anabaptist, would more resemble a IFB church with a plurality of elders rather than a single pastor. VERY big on dispensationalism and OSAS. The more conservative ones cover during services, the less conservative ones not so much.

If you asked me when my old church closed, this is where I would have expected we would have wound up. Some of these also can be the most unfriendly churches around. You almost need an invitation to visit. We did, and we were largely ignored.

J.M.

[Judas Maccabeus]

The Ontario Old Order Mennonites and the Pa. Groffdale Conference seem to have a fairly open policy for younger single church members on wearing the covering. The covering seems optional outside of church services. Married women and older singles would seem to wear the covering more consistently than they did fifty years ago when it seemed acceptable to not always wear the covering. Today some kind of covering seems to be worn 24/7.

Even in our church, in which gals are expected to wear a covering consistently, young women typically seem to begin do so during membership class, although there are exceptions.

J.M.

[Ernie]

In general, how do other Conservative Anabaptist churches feel about churches that teach that the head covering only needs to be worn during worship services?

Ultra conservatives are basically unaware of churches that teach this.
Most Intermediate and Moderates are not aware of such churches.
Fundamental Conservatives typically expect that women will veil in public life but some will concede that veiling only for worship may be a legitimate application.

All of these conservative groups are aware of progressive Mennonites who will don a doily or something like that for worship, but they assume these progressive Mennonites don't really want to cover their heads and will therefore not being wearing anything on their head during worship in a decade or two.

[Josh]

I see prayer also as a time of communing with God. And since we read in the scripture to pray without ceasing it seems good to keep biblical application consistent with how much we desire to commune with God.

But it seems ridiculous to think I can't pray to God when working outside on sunny or cold days, and that women shouldn't talk to God when in the shower.

[Josh]

I never understood why Mennonite women in our area (and we have many types of Mennonites) who wear a head piece 24/7 because they might pray at any point in the day, have husbands that don't go without a hat 24/7 for the same reason. The women could easily pull out a head piece of sorts when they were to pray outside of church just as easy as a man can remove his hat when he wants to pray outside the church. Seems there is two sets of practises for men and for women involving the same topic. To be consistent men should never wear a hat to be ready to pray at all times like the women.

There are at least 3 of the largest Mennonite groups in our area that do not, as a group, wear a head covering. Our MB church being one of them. But those individuals who chose to wear one are not a problem. Treated more as a Romans 14 issue.

Generally speaking moderate conservative churches teach exactly that (that a woman could just don headgear on the spot when she wants to pray). Very few women are interested in actually doing this and just put something on whenever they're leaving the house.