Living With The Amish Youtube Series

[Sudsy]

I know everyone here can do what they want, but I hope there is still love here? I understand where both of you are coming from. I even reached out to Josh through PM telling him I understand feeling the way he feels as I have experienced it from both other Christians and Anabaptist Christians for lack of a better way to differentiate.

Sudsy, it sounds like you are saying it should be Holy Spirit led and the person should be personally convicted. When the rules are the sole basis to fellowship and people are possibly punished for not doing everything exactly the same you have an issue with it. You do not have a issue with modesty itself but concern that there is not a deeper understanding of why people should be modest.

Josh, you seem to understand this as well but see the need for the rules and the specific guidelines.

I really think this is going to be based on our previous experiences with the world and what we took away from it. I know for me while I agree we have to be personally convicted some people need that guidance and accountability. I understand that everyone is not the same and even though I am strong some are not strong in the same way. At the same time, I think the problem you might be seeing with the youth Josh is the lack of personal conviction and just the knowledge of how to follow a rule.

It is true, that without personal conviction people will drift further to the point of what we have seen in the mainstream church.

I think we are somewhat agreeing but not saying it the the same way if that makes sense.

I do know that the second video brings up this discussion again and gender roles as this is what is different for the young teenagers. I hope we are able to discuss this without anyone thinking it is personally directed to them.

Just a comment or two on what I bolded. Amen !

Often it is just a communication thing but we should always examine our hearts as we share our differences. I believe we all are keen on furthering the Kingdom and observing how others go about doing that.

I like many things the Amish do in their more simplified lifestyle. My biggest reservation is that this lifestyle, imo, is too removed from those Christ came to save to make much impact. I think the joy Jesus talked about was not so much in family life and accomplishing earthly things but rather the kind of joy Paul and Silas had when circumstances were very bad and they were able to sing praises in a dark, dirty prison cell. It is in the uncomfortable and troublesome settings in this life that Kingdom joy is made manifest. It was the joy set before Him that Jesus endured the cross. How radical this is today when we are brainwashed constantly to avoid everything uncomfortable.

[TeleBodyofChrist]

So video 2...


First off, is it me or was there more from the girls than the boys this episode?

The boys did not really ask any questions and just jumped in with the work. The girls however...

Now, I will say when I first started going to an Anabaptist church I tended to just observe the relationships between husband and wife. I was looking for strain, if the wife was miserable, and how the children reacted to their father. I was trying to see if the women were really happy with this role because of all the bad examples I saw when women submitted.

However, I tried to do it discreetly. The girls I suppose for lack of time could not do this, but I must admit I found how they talked about the subject a little insulting to the Amish women. Is was like, "How can you be happy just doing this?", or "I wish there was the option to do more." It implied they thought their life was simply not good enough.

I think Hannah said something to the effect that they were being put in a box and could do what the men could do, but then could not even drive the peg.

Charlotte was the only one who just seemed to work along with the women.

The Amish women handled it well though their facial expressions did look like they were a little bothered when they realized that the girls were not really buying their responses.

Also, there were women working in the furniture shop but the negative was found for that as well. You know, they would have to give up this wonderful career to submit to a man. If they were happy why did it bother them so. I think it leads back to Hannah and Siana thinking, "Oh they just think they are happy because they do not know anything else." Siana even said she wished she could expose the children to other ways of doing things and let them know that there was more.

I was troubled by Hannah who is Christian. What she said about the bible not being taken literally and written only for the time it was written explained everything that is going on with the mainstream church today. I have heard this many times. It was nice that one of the Amish ladies sat down with her and shared the word. Hannah seemed really lost, but I hope she grabs at the lifeline God is giving her instead of trying to dismiss it to live in sin.

Siana, having an issue with the children working from ten bothered me. What is wrong with them working? It teaches responsibility. Not working brings about lazy children who let their parents do everything. They were not working in horrible conditions and they were contributing to the family.

I loved the discussion about education. How I wish I did not have these student loans! He was absolutely right about having a purpose. I had a purpose and I am still not working in it. In fact, I know a lot of people who are doing things other than what they went to school for. It is a major financial investment and the way our society is, they are starting young people off with mounds of debt before they can even start life good.

Plus, now that I have a family I am not sure why I bothered. It is so hard to work with 3 and soon to be (God willing) 4 children. Seriously, the only reason I still try to contribute is because of my student loans as I do not think my Husband should have to be burdened by them.

The boys seemed to be really fulfilled by the barn raising. They were pretty laid back and just rolled along with it all.

It is funny, the episode turned into a discussion of gender roles and how women and men are the same from the standpoint of the English girls, but instead showed how different men and women in fact are.

[TeleBodyofChrist]

Okay, so I watched the first episode all the way through.

For the most part everyone seemed to be interested in learning about the simple way of life.

I did not agree about the statement that the bible says women are always to be covered. It said while praying or prophesying. I understand why many choose to cover all the time though.

I caught this too- it made me wonder- do they really KNOW 1 Corinthians 11 or are they assuming the Bible teaches that women are to cover at all times- when I first learned about the headcovering, and right before I started to about 7 years ago, I was perplexed by the 'all the time' because of the passage 'when praying or prophesying'. So I asked an Amish woman if they wore it all the time because the Bible says to "Pray without ceasing" (1 Thess 5:17) therefore always be covered if one is always praying? Her face brightened and she said "that is exactly right"- so in a sense if you connect those 2 passages, you could ultimately conclude the Bible teaches to cover all the time if one is praying all the time?

It was interesting when they were fishing how the youth from England did not seem to know how to just be quiet and listen to nature. They had to fill the quiet with noise. It was almost was as if they did not want to be alone with their thoughts.

True- and they don't really think about faith, or God for that matter so they wouldn't seemingly have that appreciation for His creation and involvement in the nature they could see and hear- but hopefully, they learned to appreciate it more- and yes they had to always have other types of noise going on- maybe for the reason you suggest-

It seemed like the young girl who was into fashion had a hard time with the dress code and individual expression. I think the Aunt of the young Amish couple was correct in saying it was superficial things. The young girl was talking about clothes but at the same time I think she did not like conformity period. It was like she felt she would lose herself by blending with the group.

You will see how she is the one who challenges the most- of course there are those who challenge in Anabaptist churches, we hear of this all the time- but I admired her for wanting to understand & know more- I think you will appreciate what she says in the last one


The gender roles are hard for outsiders to understand because the modern family unit is not really a family unit. They are broken. Women are having to raise their children on their own which creates a situation where the daughters do not want to depend or feel they can not depend on a man. They do not have Godly male examples. Actually, since the males are not raised to be Godly spiritual leaders submission to them is to the downfall of the woman. It is not equal submission. When these are all the examples these youth have it is perfectly understandable that they are scared or do not trust what they see between the married couples in the Amish community.

I concur- this was completely alien to them. Thank you women's liberation movement I see how it has infiltrated the churches, hear so many comments from women AND men, that are foreign to their ways but the turning of last century, by and large, families WERE like that- men WERE the head, women didn't take issue for their roles (again by and large). I think you will appreciate later comments in the last one-

Another issue that comes into play is women in the Amish community job is the raise the children and take care of the home. Women outside the community are expected to do that as well but also have a career. If a women is not educated and cannot contribute financially then she is considered to be setting herself up for failure. What if her husband leaves her for a younger model? What would she do?

Yes, that is what has caused so many women in our society to feel the NEED for an education and career- 'in case'. But think about it, in an Amish community, even the widows are looked after- because of their community living according to Scripture about looking after each other. An Amish woman, single, widowed, or in the rare case a husband leaves, still need not 'worry' about her future. I have met and talked to Amish women in these situations that are well cared for. And they also, contribute to their community

I admit this is hard for me as I was raised to have a backup plan and not depend on a man. All the examples around me were bad for women who trusted a man. I heard about submission, of course, but only seen it as a way for men to lord over the woman like she was a possession. I did not want that to happen to me.

Out of necessity that has become the dominate mindset in our culture. Well it happened to my own family- Dad left us when I was 15 and mom was so devastated that she wasn't there for us mentally, emotionally, spiritually or physically for a couple of years afterwards. She didn't have an education or career and she was so depressed and scared she couldn't cope with adjusting, going to work now, and our needs too- so we were pretty much on our own. Same with my husband's family which was even worse- so when men started leaving families for the supposed greener grass on the other side, women started feeling they HAD to support themselves. I can understand your own concerns

I think that in order for the youth's perception to change on this it will take more than what this series can provide. I am still learning after being Anabaptist for a good while now.

Agreed-I would love to get an update on all these, I tried emailing the producer I was in contact with but it came back undeliverable- she must have left KEO films- the fact that this was presented as a 6 part documentary for the UK to be seen, I wonder about their own take on all these things-once they viewed it. But like you, my thinking was they seemed to ultimately be 'affected' positively in many ways- but without further mentoring it probably ended up falling by the wayside- who knows but God- seeds were planted, if their hearts were turning to Him, someone else could do the watering-

The reason I sought to find out about if this series was available online, my 19 year old niece is wanting to go live in the UK, in areas we are very concerned about for what they promote- she has not surrendered her heart to the Lord and we believe she could be lost to the world- mom & I are praying she will consider watching these-

I meant to ask about this earlier, but are the women who are widowed pressured to remarry as soon as possible? I wonder if that is the case since the church is supporting them.

[Josh]

I've never seen any such pressure. I do see most widows pretty eager to marry again, but it doesn't happen for a lot of them.

[RZehr]

Widows pressured to marry again?? Within a culture that the man always instigates the courtship, what would it accomplish to pressure the widow?

No, widows are not pressured to marry.

[Josh]

Widows pressured to marry again?? Within a culture that the man always instigates the courtship, what would it accomplish to pressure the widow?

No, widows are not pressured to marry.

Interestingly, the Bible commands that they do.

[TeleBodyofChrist]

Widows pressured to marry again?? Within a culture that the man always instigates the courtship, what would it accomplish to pressure the widow?

No, widows are not pressured to marry.

I am beginning to wonder if things are being intentionally misunderstood. Why in the world would you think what I asked had anything to do with rules of courtship? Why so sarcastic?

I just wanted to know if they were pressured to take to any proposals even if they did not want to because the church was supporting them.

It is not blatantly obvious what the practice would be since every church is different. Valerie mentioned what women she encountered told her so I asked.

[TeleBodyofChrist]

Widows pressured to marry again?? Within a culture that the man always instigates the courtship, what would it accomplish to pressure the widow?

No, widows are not pressured to marry.

Interestingly, the Bible commands that they do.

That who do what?

[Josh]

Widows pressured to marry again?? Within a culture that the man always instigates the courtship, what would it accomplish to pressure the widow?

No, widows are not pressured to marry.

Interestingly, the Bible commands that they do.

It commands widows under 60 to be remarried instead of making a vow of widowhood.


That who do what?

[Valerie]

I meant to ask about this earlier, but are the women who are widowed pressured to remarry as soon as possible? I wonder if that is the case since the church is supporting them.

I honestly and truly don't see Amish women in these situations a financial burden on their communities. Amish women contribute so much- but this type of community lifestyle and the needs are not 'personally' so expensive, the way they live- that it's not near like the thought of helping out a single or widow woman in our culture- I remember visiting an Amish woman I drove- she made baskets to help support herself. She had her own home- while I was there, one of the Amish men had brought over a huge amount of deer meet from hunting- I mean everywhere I looked, was deer meet soaking in buckets of water- I suspect enough to last her a good while- she seemed to be comfortable! And since her first husband had run off with another woman- she couldn't remarry-

Actually- an Amish community in Maine a friend used to live in- they took in a 60 year old legally blind divorcee- who had visited there while on vacation, fell in love with it- asked if she could possibly join them- the bishop proposed that she stay with different families a couple of weeks, then go home & pray about it (she was from Boston!- big city living) she did, and decided she wanted to join them and eventually became a full member of an Amish community- so my observation is that it really isn't TOO much of a burden to help these women to the point they would strongly encourage marriage, especially in cases were they are not allowed to.