Television

[Sudsy]

Over on MennoNerds it is considered divisive to argue about whether Christ came in the flesh or was just a historical figure. That's where this "anything goes" thinking leads to.

First not sure what "anything goes" is referring to. We have guidelines or general expectations of members and not "anything goes" to become a member. But these are very general in nature such as not challenging the statement of faith openly and causing division. But regarding sanctification in detailed areas ? No. And I don't believe this needs be a 'slippery slope' but actually can aid in spiritual development as people learn personal convictions. Why we don't see this approach producing more mature Christians ? Imo, it comes back to what is being taught with regard to the necessity of holiness and evangelism, etc. I could ask the same of those who have strict rules for sanctification. Why are they not leading the way in Kingdom growth ? Why are they so isolated from the world in their sanctification pursuit ?

Fundamentalism was a reaction to this. Instead of making excuses for how someone who blatantly disobeys the Bible can be in fellowship, why can't I just fellowship with people who agree with Paul - "Every woman praying or prophesying with her head uncovered dishonours her head."

You can, no one is stopping you. The choice is yours. And others might want to fellowship with people who agree with Paul here - "Therefore I want the men everywhere to pray, lifting up holy hands without anger or disputing." As they think those who don't are ones who "blatantly disobeys the Bible".

Doesn't take much to carve out another group of believers who think their ways of obeying are better than someone else. Might be called - 'The Church Of The Lifted Hands'. Sounds like it would be a Charismatic. Being silly but who knows.

[Josh]

Sudsy,

The main reason I am in a church with stricter standards is that what goes along with that is, a real dedication to evangelism and reaching the lost, along with teaching that if you claim to be a Christian yet have no interest in those things, you aren't being obedient to the scripture and need to seriously reevaluate your commitment to follow Christ.

For comparison the churches around me that decided to go the "individual conviction" route either:

1. Have no passion to reach the lost

2. Openly embrace homosexual behaviour

3. Are full of people carrying guns and eager to participate in politics to make sure people like Trump gets elected

I don't really want to be around any of that - if I am why bother to pretend to be a Christian at all?

[Ernie]

Sudsy,

The main reason I am in a church with stricter standards is that what goes along with that is, a real dedication to evangelism and reaching the lost, along with teaching that if you claim to be a Christian yet have no interest in those things, you aren't being obedient to the scripture and need to seriously reevaluate your commitment to follow Christ.

For comparison the churches around me that decided to go the "individual conviction" route either:

1. Have no passion to reach the lost

2. Openly embrace homosexual behaviour

3. Are full of people carrying guns and eager to participate in politics to make sure people like Trump gets elected

I don't really want to be around any of that - if I am why bother to pretend to be a Christian at all?

The problem Josh is that there are some churches in between yours and the churches around you who don't do these things you talk about and do care about evangelism and there is always this idea that people don't have to be one or the other.
The unspoken reality is that most churches in between are in transition and don't last very long in that state.

Some of us want to be part of a movement that has a future, not one that is in transition to something we don't like. And so we are willing to put up with something that is not quite as ideal in the immediate, because we know that it will still be there 40 years from now and not completely dissolved or assimilated.

[Sudsy]

Sudsy,

The main reason I am in a church with stricter standards is that what goes along with that is, a real dedication to evangelism and reaching the lost, along with teaching that if you claim to be a Christian yet have no interest in those things, you aren't being obedient to the scripture and need to seriously reevaluate your commitment to follow Christ.

For comparison the churches around me that decided to go the "individual conviction" route either:

1. Have no passion to reach the lost

2. Openly embrace homosexual behaviour

3. Are full of people carrying guns and eager to participate in politics to make sure people like Trump gets elected

I don't really want to be around any of that - if I am why bother to pretend to be a Christian at all?

Then you should stay where you are and give it your best. If being around everyone that believes and acts the same is important to your Christian walk then that is where you should be. However, it isn't for every believer and I don't think other's Christ following should be questioned in the sense that they are just pretending to be Christians. This is somewhat Pharisitical, imo.

Your findings and mine differ in some ways. What I have found is that in most churches there are those within the church that are keen on obedience and evangelism. In Baptist, Pentecostal, Methodist and various others where they do not have these strict standard requirements to be members. They may not approach one or more of these areas as you believe but they still are trying to follow Christ as they understand how. And they are able to follow Christ despite how others in their group follow. They have more of a Romans 14 attitude. These areas are not unpardonable sins, imo.

I am part of an MB congregation without strict sanctification standards and I don't think, in general, any of these you listed apply. But I'm sure you would be uncomfortable with how we approach a Christ-centered focus.

[Ernie]

I am part of an MB congregation without strict sanctification standards and I don't think, in general, any of these you listed apply. But I'm sure you would be uncomfortable with how we approach a Christ-centered focus.

Yes. I'm guessing yours would be an example of the transitional type that I referred to earlier.

[Josh]

How would you feel if your church ordained someone married to someone of the same sex?

[Sudsy]

I am part of an MB congregation without strict sanctification standards and I don't think, in general, any of these you listed apply. But I'm sure you would be uncomfortable with how we approach a Christ-centered focus.

Yes. I'm guessing yours would be an example of the transitional type that I referred to earlier.

I am doubtful that there is proof that any ways of following Jesus will remain in it's current state 40 years into the future. I don't see how you can know it will. I didn't think you believed in eternal security.

Kidding aside, I hope we are transitional in a way that relates more and more to the culture we live in. As Paul said, he became like those he dealt with to bring them to Christ. I don't care for the modern style of Christian music yet if it is a means that this generation uses to worship and it attracts others to believe in Christ, then I chose to set aside my preference. For some, this is becoming more worldly in a negative sense. For me, it is adapting to the culture in a positive way. I think we view this approach quite differently. Time will tell how this will unfold and I suspect at some point all approaches to Christ following will go through some form of reformation.

Well, someday all of those God has adopted into His family will be gathered and worshipping together. As Jesus said, there will be surprises as to who has done the Father's will and who has not. Our views on saving faith and what obedience involves at that time really won't matter, will it ? God alone knows the heart and our judgments are often flawed.

Sorry Adam for straying so far from your TV questions.

[Sudsy]

How would you feel if your church ordained someone married to someone of the same sex?

Let me answer it this way - How would you feel if your church changed it's belief on divorce and remarriage and began remarrying divorced people ?

Probably two unlikely scenarios that I am not concerned about. Until in that position I don't know just how I would feel.

Also, I don't feel an obligation to remain part of any local church. My personal decision to chose another fellowship group overrides submitting to leadership of a local church and/or denomination. First and foremost I need to submit to God.

[Wade]

We got rid of TV when I was still an atheist... I am surprised any Christians​ would watch TV...
It was one of the best things we have ever done for what I have seen in the positive development of our children.
And it took over a year for desensitization to fade off and then at my parents one time to recognize all the filthy suggestive actions and words in what was supposed to be mild and good children's​ shows - nevermind older age "appropriate" programming.
Programming being a very appropriate word for what it did to me and my family when we watched it...

[Josh]

We got rid of TV when I was still an atheist... I am surprised any Christians​ would watch TV...
It was one of the best things we have ever done for what I have seen in the positive development of our children.
And it took over a year for desensitization to fade off and then at my parents one time to recognize all the filthy suggestive actions and words in what was supposed to be mild and good children's​ shows - nevermind older age "appropriate" programming.
Programming being a very appropriate word for what it did to me and my family when we watched it...

Even more surprising is how many Christians convince themselves Netflix, Hulu, HBO NOW, MLB TV, and a steady diet of YouTube clips are not "TV".