Traditions???

[MaxPC]

The spoken word of course is the oral tradition. The written is self-explanatory.

What traditions do you think Paul the Apostle was citing in this passage?

2 Thessalonians 2:15
15 So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the traditions that you were taught by us, either by our spoken word or by our letter. (ESV)

[Bootstrap]

The spoken word of course is the oral tradition. The written is self-explanatory.

That "of course" probably doesn't extend to Mennonite circles, we don't usually understand this the way the Catholics and Orthodox do. The Greek word "tradition" here means something that is handed down, handed on, or delivered verbally, but we don't have the same notion that the disciples passed on doctrine and institutions that were binding for all time but were never written down. In particular, Mennonites don't agree with the Catholic understanding of The Transmission of Divine Revelation as laid out in the Catechism, including the Catholic understanding of The Apostolic Tradition, its link to Apostolic Succession, or the Catholic understanding of the relationship between Tradition and Sacred Scripture.

If it was never written down, how can we know what it was today? The Catholic answer is that the Catholic Church has preserved the oral tradition in its teaching, but this is not what most Mennonites believe.

The Greek word means things that are handed down, handed on, or delivered verbally. I don't know exactly what Paul and the apostles told the Thessalonians verbally, except for the things that they also wrote down. The Thessalonians did.

What traditions do you think Paul the Apostle was citing in this passage?

I imagine it's very much along the lines of the things that are taught in the rest of the New Testament. I don't believe there was a hidden oral tradition like that of the Jews. After all, Jesus was pretty scathing about that kind of oral tradition, warning that it made void the Word of God.

But there are things that Paul talks about passing on that are not written down in letters to the Thessalonians, here are a few that he refers to using this word:

Instructions about Head Coverings

Now I praise you because you always remember me and keep the traditions just as I delivered them to you. But I want you to know ...

For I received from the Lord what I also passed on to you: On the night when He was betrayed, the Lord Jesus took bread, gave thanks, broke it, and said, “This is My body, which is for you. Do this in remembrance of Me.”

In the same way, after supper He also took the cup and said, “This cup is the new covenant established by My blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me.” For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until He comes.

I would imagine that much of what was passed on orally to one church is written down in his instructions to another church. If not, I don't know how we could recover it today.

[Bootstrap]

It may be helpful to compare the Catholic teaching on tradition with these sources.

Article 4. Scripture

We acknowledge the Scripture as the authoritative source and standard for preaching and teaching about faith and life, for distinguishing truth from error, for discerning between good and evil, and for guiding prayer and worship. Other claims on our understanding of Christian faith and life, such as tradition, culture, experience, reason, and political powers, need to be tested and corrected by the light of Holy Scripture.

This appears in the commentary for the above article:

The authority of Scripture has its ultimate source in God, who has inspired (“breathed”) it for specific purposes in the life of the church and its members (2 Tim. 3:16-17). The church confesses and recognizes the authority of Holy Scripture; it does not take upon itself the right to give the Scripture its authority. Precisely how God has inspired the Scriptures through the Holy Spirit is not explained in the Bible. We therefore content ourselves with the assurance that Scripture is fully reliable and trustworthy because the One who has inspired it is faithful and true.

Not that we don't have our own traditions - we definitely do. But we tend not to think that our traditions were directly handed down from the Apostles if they are not found in Scripture.

[RZehr]

I have no idea what Paul specifically verbalized to the Thessalonians. I don't know how anyone would know for sure.

[MaxPC]

I have no idea what Paul specifically verbalized to the Thessalonians. I don't know how anyone would know for sure.

True and true. I think I'll go back through 1st Thess to see if I can spot some patterns and specifics.

[Adam]

Although we do not know specifically what Paul was referring too in that passage, I do think the writings of the early Christians (Ante-Nicene) can be helpful, especially when we are trying to interpret Scripture passages that are confusing. They were direct recipients of the oral tradition. Not that we should take their words as Scripture, but they can be a good guide when we are trying to decide between multiple possible interpretations of a New Testament passage. I think tradition has a role to play in that sense, although not if it cannot be confirmed by the written word. But it can help us understand the Scriptures. But I would not trust the tradition that was preserved after the implementation of the Constantinian Hybrid. That seems to the time when early church tradition was distorted and voices like Augustine's took over in its place (at least in Western Christianity).

[Josh]

I like the traditions laid down in the Bible, particularly, communion, baptism, the veiling, and footwashing.

[Valerie]

Although we do not know specifically what Paul was referring too in that passage, I do think the writings of the early Christians (Ante-Nicene) can be helpful, especially when we are trying to interpret Scripture passages that are confusing. They were direct recipients of the oral tradition. Not that we should take their words as Scripture, but they can be a good guide when we are trying to decide between multiple possible interpretations of a New Testament passage. I think tradition has a role to play in that sense, although not if it cannot be confirmed by the written word. But it can help us understand the Scriptures. But I would not trust the tradition that was preserved after the implementation of the Constantinian Hybrid. That seems to the time when early church tradition was distorted and voices like Augustine's took over in its place (at least in Western Christianity).

I am convinced of what you share except for I DO believe that the Holy Spirit remained with the Church as promised- and that Jesus said He would build His Church and the gates of hades would not prevail against her- I do believe that not everything the Apostles taught was written down,, so that the traditions of the Church were taught orally and not necessarily written down but as the Church's witness throughout the world in what they practiced commonly where each of the Apostles took the Gospel and started Churches- it seems there were traditions they taught orally that were not dictated to a scribe- so I tend to believe this passage fits in these considerations too:

1 Timothy 3:15King James Version (KJV)

15 But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

[MaxPC]

Although we do not know specifically what Paul was referring too in that passage, I do think the writings of the early Christians (Ante-Nicene) can be helpful, especially when we are trying to interpret Scripture passages that are confusing. They were direct recipients of the oral tradition. Not that we should take their words as Scripture, but they can be a good guide when we are trying to decide between multiple possible interpretations of a New Testament passage. I think tradition has a role to play in that sense, although not if it cannot be confirmed by the written word. But it can help us understand the Scriptures. But I would not trust the tradition that was preserved after the implementation of the Constantinian Hybrid. That seems to the time when early church tradition was distorted and voices like Augustine's took over in its place (at least in Western Christianity).

I agree about the Early Christian writings ( we call them Early Church Fathers). I'm going to start a new thread about the concerns over Augustine.

[Bootstrap]

Bump!

Since we already have a thread for this scripture, I'm reminding people that it exists, in case there is anything new to be said here.