Pride Forfeits Grace

Christian ethics and theology with an Anabaptist perspective
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Sudsy
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Pride Forfeits Grace

Post by Sudsy »

We certainly don't want God to hold back His grace from us over pride, right ?

Here are a few thoughts concerning pride I found in an article by Fabienne Harford

1) While pride causes us to filter out the evil in our own hearts, it also causes us to filter out God’s goodness in others.
2) Those with pride in their hearts speak of others’ sins with contempt, irritation, frustration, or judgment.
3) With pride in our hearts, we’re far more concerned with others’ perceptions of us than the reality of our hearts.
4) True humility is not knocked off balance and thrown into a defensive posture by challenge or rebuke.
5) Pride is hungry for attention, respect, and worship in all its form.
6) Pride prefers some people over others.
7) Pride is the sin most likely to keep you from crying out for a Savior.

Is there any thoughts on these or something else we should consider about pride ?
The spiritually proud person shows it in his finding fault with other saints. . . . The eminently humble Christian has so much to do at home and sees so much evil in his own that he is not apt to be very busy with other hearts.
- Jonathan Edwards
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TeleBodyofChrist
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Re: Pride Forfeits Grace

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Yes, pride comes before the fall.

Unfortunately, this happens and what was talked about in the Bible with removing the "plank from your eye..."

I do think there is a way for us as Christians to help each other stay on the narrow path. I think the key is to stay with what the word says. I have no problem with correction from the word for it is true and good for correction.

However, I have seen people judged by other Christian's for things that were tradition. Worse if they questioned, they were dismissed as worshiping individualism. Pride is refusing to see any other way, and thinking only you are right.
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Josh
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Re: Pride Forfeits Grace

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I think Christ's grace and mercy can overcome our worst pride.
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Sudsy
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Re: Pride Forfeits Grace

Post by Sudsy »

TeleBodyofChrist wrote:Yes, pride comes before the fall.

Unfortunately, this happens and what was talked about in the Bible with removing the "plank from your eye..."

I do think there is a way for us as Christians to help each other stay on the narrow path. I think the key is to stay with what the word says. I have no problem with correction from the word for it is true and good for correction.

However, I have seen people judged by other Christian's for things that were tradition. Worse if they questioned, they were dismissed as worshiping individualism. Pride is refusing to see any other way, and thinking only you are right.
Referring to what I bolded - that is an interesting observation when traditions are questioned and one is accused of individualism. I suspect that most traditions originated by an individual who had the ability to sell his case to others for creating a tradition. An individuals idea was so well presented to a group that his idea set up control over the group. And was the original motivated by pride or control or glorifying God, who really knows but God.
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TeleBodyofChrist
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Re: Pride Forfeits Grace

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Sudsy wrote:
TeleBodyofChrist wrote:Yes, pride comes before the fall.

Unfortunately, this happens and what was talked about in the Bible with removing the "plank from your eye..."

I do think there is a way for us as Christians to help each other stay on the narrow path. I think the key is to stay with what the word says. I have no problem with correction from the word for it is true and good for correction.

However, I have seen people judged by other Christian's for things that were tradition. Worse if they questioned, they were dismissed as worshiping individualism. Pride is refusing to see any other way, and thinking only you are right.
Referring to what I bolded - that is an interesting observation when traditions are questioned and one is accused of individualism. I suspect that most traditions originated by an individual who had the ability to sell his case to others for creating a tradition. An individuals idea was so well presented to a group that his idea set up control over the group. And was the original motivated by pride or control or glorifying God, who really knows but God.
Sudsy,

I think too because we were coming from out there. It is just assumed that you have the me, me, me mindset. We just wanted to understand why, but they just wanted us to accept no questions asked.
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Josh
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Re: Pride Forfeits Grace

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TeleBodyofChrist wrote:Sudsy,

I think too because we were coming from out there. It is just assumed that you have the me, me, me mindset. We just wanted to understand why, but they just wanted us to accept no questions asked.
I think a healthy approach would be:

(1) Spontaneously explain to people why you have traditions. I have noticed Holdemans tend to do this quite a bit, probably because they seem to have a lot of contact with seekers. They'll just spontaneously start explaining something (sometimes something I already know.)

(2) Teach the value of submission to established cultural and social norms.

(3) Be very encouraging when seekers ask questions. Don't tell them not to worry about it. Make it clear you aren't expecting them to immediately practice that tradition, but be willing to explain as much as you know about it.

For whatever reasons, intermediate-conservatives are pretty good at this, Holdemans are really good at it.

Somehow I have ended up being this way too. So I end up being an evangelist not just for the idea of following Jesus, which is our biggest tradition, but also all the little traditions we have built up that help us continue to be Jesus-followers. It builds up excitement and has made my friends and associates a lot more interested in joining a plain church.

Moderate-conservatives and fundamental-conservatives tend to be almost apologetic when questions are asked. Or they just say "Don't worry about it" and make it clear they don't expect you to start following their traditions anytime soon. That's very frustrating for a seeker.
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Sudsy
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Re: Pride Forfeits Grace

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TeleBodyofChrist wrote: Sudsy,

I think too because we were coming from out there. It is just assumed that you have the me, me, me mindset. We just wanted to understand why, but they just wanted us to accept no questions asked.
I think it is dangerous for any group to not be ready and willing to give an explanation for their traditions and/or beliefs. This is a tactic that cults often use. Don't ask why, just obey. I, too, want to know the whys before I follow a tradition. I may not totally agree but if it is not a big enough issue I will comply to fit in. Recently I am looking into formal church membership. I grew up in a church without any formal church membership and it seemed to work just fine. I see the arguments for and although I still don't see much scriptural support, I have reached a point of acceptance as it is not as big issue as I once made it. Having the whys explained in a short course, I can now commit to this local church membership concept.

This didn't involve pride but it did involve knowing why I should be a member and our MB teaching pastor made a good case that made me think again about my stand.
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