How are Mennos Homeschooling in PA?

Christian ethics and theology with an Anabaptist perspective
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Chris
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How are Mennos Homeschooling in PA?

Post by Chris »

PA is very strict on homeschool laws second ONLY to New York in the entire nation. I've heard of many Mennos homeschooling in PA and wonder how they do it? I'm curious if the churches there "blanket" their homeschools with a private school setting. Also I wonder how the Amish do it? Are they inspected/state tested?

In states such as Indiana, Missouri, Texas (among others) you don't have to tell them ANYTHING. You just homeschool. (If your child is enrolled though and you take the out in these states it is probably a good idea to tell the school though that you are going to homeschool). The govt in these states treat homeschool like a private school and DO NOTHING for regulation.

But in PA with such a huge Anabaptist presence, and so many Anabaptists private & homeschool, I can't help but wonder how in the world it is done there. Certainly there has to be some kind of "church cover", either that or I'm mistaken.
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ken_sylvania
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Re: How are Mennos Homeschooling in PA?

Post by ken_sylvania »

Chris wrote:PA is very strict on homeschool laws second ONLY to New York in the entire nation. I've heard of many Mennos homeschooling in PA and wonder how they do it? I'm curious if the churches there "blanket" their homeschools with a private school setting. Also I wonder how the Amish do it? Are they inspected/state tested?

In states such as Indiana, Missouri, Texas (among others) you don't have to tell them ANYTHING. You just homeschool. (If your child is enrolled though and you take the out in these states it is probably a good idea to tell the school though that you are going to homeschool). The govt in these states treat homeschool like a private school and DO NOTHING for regulation.

But in PA with such a huge Anabaptist presence, and so many Anabaptists private & homeschool, I can't help but wonder how in the world it is done there. Certainly there has to be some kind of "church cover", either that or I'm mistaken.
While PA's homeschool laws are more strict than many states, they aren't impossible to comply with. The requirement that the "education supervisor" has a GED or high school diploma might be the biggest hurdle. There are some homeschool groups in PA to help families along with the requirements.

Would I be forgiven for saying that parents are doing their child a disservice by homeschooling him if they aren't willing to provide enough structured education to meet the PA state requirements, or if they aren't capable of handling the paperwork the state requires?
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Chris
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Re: How are Mennos Homeschooling in PA?

Post by Chris »

ken_sylvania wrote:
Chris wrote:PA is very strict on homeschool laws second ONLY to New York in the entire nation. I've heard of many Mennos homeschooling in PA and wonder how they do it? I'm curious if the churches there "blanket" their homeschools with a private school setting. Also I wonder how the Amish do it? Are they inspected/state tested?

In states such as Indiana, Missouri, Texas (among others) you don't have to tell them ANYTHING. You just homeschool. (If your child is enrolled though and you take the out in these states it is probably a good idea to tell the school though that you are going to homeschool). The govt in these states treat homeschool like a private school and DO NOTHING for regulation.

But in PA with such a huge Anabaptist presence, and so many Anabaptists private & homeschool, I can't help but wonder how in the world it is done there. Certainly there has to be some kind of "church cover", either that or I'm mistaken.
While PA's homeschool laws are more strict than many states, they aren't impossible to comply with. The requirement that the "education supervisor" has a GED or high school diploma might be the biggest hurdle. There are some homeschool groups in PA to help families along with the requirements.

Would I be forgiven for saying that parents are doing their child a disservice by homeschooling him if they aren't willing to provide enough structured education to meet the PA state requirements, or if they aren't capable of handling the paperwork the state requires?
Some parents don't like the government to be involved in their child's education, nor feel the government has a say so in their child's education. It's not about being capable. Many homeschoolers are much more structured than public schools. In reality, some of us homeschoolers have college degrees that surpass a large percentage of most teaching staff & school boards.

But yes, you are forgiven. :) It's the notion that a parent must prove their worthiness for training their own child which is so bothersome. It's also a blatant waste of time.
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ken_sylvania
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Re: How are Mennos Homeschooling in PA?

Post by ken_sylvania »

Chris wrote: Some parents don't like the government to be involved in their child's education, nor feel the government has a say so in their child's education. It's not about being capable. Many homeschoolers are much more structured than public schools. In reality, some of us homeschoolers have college degrees that surpass a large percentage of most teaching staff & school boards.

But yes, you are forgiven. :) It's the notion that a parent must prove their worthiness for training their own child which is so bothersome. It's also a blatant waste of time.
Government involvement - I tend to agree with you. As society in general moves away from Godly principles I expect conflict and tension between the government and Christian homes to increase.

Capable - Maybe I misunderstood the OP. I thought you were suggesting that PA's laws were so burdensome that the average homeschooling parent would find it difficult to comply. I don't think they're quite that burdensome.

Structure - Many homeschoolers are quite structured, but quite a few are not. In fact, some seem to take a perverse delight in being unstructured. When the products of these homeschools move into the workforce, they can find it difficult to deal with the structure required in many occupations.

Level of education - Many homeschoolers are well educated, and I appreciate that. Unfortunately there are those who homeschool because they do not value a good education. I've personally known a number of people who were homeschooled by parents who didn't value a decent education. By a decent education, I mean a good solid 8th or 10th grade equivalent education. It's sad to see an otherwise very successful businessman who struggles with basic spelling and letter writing just because his parents didn't care enough to see that he got a decent education.

Making parents prove their child-training skills - That bothers me as well. Would the next step be requiring parenting training before people can have children?

Waste of time - I disagree. In order to be considered at least as structured than public schools (you said many are more structured), I would say there has to be an education plan in place, a schedule, and regular testing. The portfolio requirement doesn't need to take a lot of time, really. In my experience, I would say basic record keeping and a basic level of accountability is rarely if ever a waste of time.

Are there specific parts of PA's requirements that you consider overly burdensome? I would be interested in knowing what they are.
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Josh
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Re: How are Mennos Homeschooling in PA?

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PA is full of homeschooling. It is regulated. One of the blessings in PA is that church schools are lightly regulated with accomodations made for plain church schools to relieve us from college degree requirements.

I question the motives and attitudes of people who wish to be free of any regulation or oversight at all.
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mike
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Re: How are Mennos Homeschooling in PA?

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We have been homeschooling in PA for nine years, and have about eighteen more years to go. :shock:

We comply with the requirements for a parent to have a high school diploma, immunizations, various educational and testing requirements, and maintain student portfolios which are evaluated by a certified evaluator. Most of this is not as difficult as it sounds. Education requirements are basic, and we use an online testing service for the CAT tests.

It has actually become easier to home school in PA in several ways since the previous governor's relaxing of several regs. Parents can now issue, under the oversight of an evaluator, a high school diploma which has the same value as a state school-issued diploma or GED. I am curious how this will actually play out. For ourselves, we are working with the educational requirements of a particular school district in PA which issues a diploma from that school at completion of high school.

Also, portfolios now do not need to be submitted to the school district - the evaluator simply submits a report. That used to be a major pain every school year - sometimes needing to drop off (and pick up) portfolios at elementary, middle, and high schools.

I am aware of many conservative Mennonites who home school under the state requirements and have heard of practically no issues with the law.

Amish schools are another thing altogether. Private schools in PA are regulated FAR less than home schools. There is NO educational requirement for private school teachers. Put in your 180 days, submit immunization reports, cover certain basic subjects. That's about it. No portfolios, reports, or other academic oversight.
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Josh
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Re: How are Mennos Homeschooling in PA?

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Actually there is one requirement for private religious schools in PA: the teacher has to be one grade ahead of her students.
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mike
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Re: How are Mennos Homeschooling in PA?

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Josh wrote:Actually there is one requirement for private religious schools in PA: the teacher has to be one grade ahead of her students.
OK so where does one find this rule?
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Re: How are Mennos Homeschooling in PA?

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mike wrote:
Josh wrote:Actually there is one requirement for private religious schools in PA: the teacher has to be one grade ahead of her students.
OK so where does one find this rule?
This is what a school principal of a private Mennonite school in PA told me. I believe the actual legislation or state regulations says this in a much more roundabout fashion (basically stating a teacher must be at a higher level of education than her students, but not going into details about exactly what that means).

The state of PA seems to want to kind of just leave things as they are with private schools, but leave the option to enforce regulation if need be. Since Amish and Mennonite schools don't cause trouble, the state leaves them alone. Same for homeschooling.
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Re: How are Mennos Homeschooling in PA?

Post by mike »

Josh wrote:
mike wrote:
Josh wrote:Actually there is one requirement for private religious schools in PA: the teacher has to be one grade ahead of her students.
OK so where does one find this rule?
This is what a school principal of a private Mennonite school in PA told me. I believe the actual legislation or state regulations says this in a much more roundabout fashion (basically stating a teacher must be at a higher level of education than her students, but not going into details about exactly what that means).

The state of PA seems to want to kind of just leave things as they are with private schools, but leave the option to enforce regulation if need be. Since Amish and Mennonite schools don't cause trouble, the state leaves them alone. Same for homeschooling.
About 12 years ago I attended a workshop in Harrisburg given by a state official on starting a private school. She said nothing about such a requirement. There was a retired public school administrator at the workshop whose jaw was basically on the floor most of the workshop because of how few regulations there are for private schools in PA. The instructor's purpose for the workshop seemed to be primarily to let us know how many free resources and materials are available from the state for private schools, because "if we don't use the money that we have budgeted for these things, they will budget us less next year." Seriously those were her words.
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