Brother's Witness Through Dress

Christian ethics and theology with an Anabaptist perspective
Ernie
Posts: 5454
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2016 2:48 pm
Location: Central PA
Affiliation: Anabaptist Umbrella
Contact:

Re: Brother's Witness Through Dress

Post by Ernie »

Chris, this is typically taught in conservative Mennonite churches. Not sure if you came up with this on your own or heard it somewhere.

I personally like the idea of feminine clothing... which includes more than just wearing a dress. My wife and daughters wear floral prints but the men in our church do not. Would it be sinful for men to do this?... not necessarily. Especially not in a culture where both men and women wear floral printed clothing.
However, some things are hard to explain other than that there are cultural norms for men's and women's dress, and I don't think it makes sense for followers of Jesus to be the ones who are helping to do away with distinctions between men's and women's dress.
0 x
The old woodcutter spoke again. “It is impossible to talk with you. You always draw conclusions. Life is so vast, yet you judge all of life with one page or one word. You see only a fragment. Unless you know the whole story, how can you judge?"
MaxPC
Posts: 9044
Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2016 9:09 pm
Location: Former full time RVers
Affiliation: PlainRomanCatholic
Contact:

Re: Brother's Witness Through Dress

Post by MaxPC »

Did the custom of non-conformity in clothing develop over time? I've heard that the reason the Anabaptists avoided mustaches with their beards was because the military wore mustaches.

I can certainly understand the need for it today, especially in a culture that tries to accommodate cross-dressing and transgender behaviors against the teachings of the Bible.
0 x
Max (Plain Catholic)
Mt 24:35
Proverbs 18:2 A fool does not delight in understanding but only in revealing his own mind.
1 Corinthians 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is folly with God
Sudsy
Posts: 5859
Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2017 3:32 pm
Affiliation: .

Re: Brother's Witness Through Dress

Post by Sudsy »

TeleBodyofChrist wrote:Sudsy and Valerie,

I understand what you are saying however, when I first started going to a MB church one of the reason's I was given for the sisters was that it was modest and a witness. I dressed modestly before going to an Anabaptist church but not a cape dress.

After wearing the cape dress I was approached A LOT by people who wanted to know about the faith. I was raised in the church and was never approached about my faith before. The only difference I could tell was I changed my outfit. So, there is something to this. Plus, it made me feel as if people were always watching me because they were. lol. I blended in before. To be honest it probably made me think more about how I was presenting myself in public.

So then, when I say responsibility of brothers I say it in reference to what I was told for the sisters. If that makes sense.
I don't see in scripture where we need to dress in a certain way to draw attention to our religion. Jesus said to be a city set on a hill (quite obvious) or allowing our lights to shine it should be due to our good deeds and those other areas I mentioned previously. If these are as obvious as I believe they are supposed to be (and I certainly fall short here), we will get some inquiries about our faith and considerable persecution.

There was a time that I thought of joining the Salvation Army as a uniform was quite appealing to me as a witness. The Salvation Army developed a uniform so that they could easily be identified in public as a source of help and service. Within their church these uniforms had some add-ons for identifying the role one was serving in the church. However, what they experienced from some immigrants got the opposite response as some were fleeing a country where uniformed people were ones to be feared. Their uniforms today would not be adequate enough for many CM standards of modesty from what I have read (i.e optional short sleeves). The main argument I have against wearing some kind of uniform to identify us as a certain brand of Christian, is that it begs the question - why don't all Christians dress the same ? Doesn't a uniform sort of say - I am of Paul, or I am of Appollos or I am of Peter ?

Anyway, when we do get asked about our faith (whether it be by dress or something we abstain from or), do we talk about Jesus or about submitting to a requirement by our group or something else ? I have found myself at times talking about my church and ending there when I had a chance to say why I do or don't do something because of Jesus in my life. And then I feel bad that I missed out on an opportunity to share my faith in Jesus.

I have a rock in my front driveway that I had engraved 'Jesus Is Lord'. This is one of those identifiers not soken of in scripture. I was hoping someone would ask me what that meant but folks normally just don't say anything, even when we are standing close to it in conversation. And like you, I do feel that others are watching my life with this open statement and it makes me be more careful. It also reminds me each day of who is Lord and how I need to recognize that in all areas of my life. So, I use this as an identifier but I keep seeing in scripture this should not be my main identifier of being a Christ follower.

We have lots of cape dresses worn in our area and a kerchief. What really hits me as odd is that along with these modest cape dresses most wear modern day running shoes and often the latest bright coloured ones. Perhaps non-conformity ends at the ankles, I don't know. The men are somewhat unique in our area as plaid, western style shirts with ball styles hats are quite common among the various Mennonites. I just haven't noticed short pants on men but this wouldn't cause me to ask about their faith regardless of how hot the weather becomes.

Interesting subject.
0 x
Pursuing a Kingdom life in the Spirit
User avatar
TeleBodyofChrist
Posts: 96
Joined: Tue Mar 07, 2017 10:20 am
Location: Traveler
Affiliation: Christian
Contact:

Re: Brother's Witness Through Dress

Post by TeleBodyofChrist »

Chris wrote:Plain dress to me represents a woman dying of worldly flesh. That she is willing to drop out of the competition of main stream fashion and style. That she won't be trying to glorify her beauty through accessories, make up, and such. Also that she will not be in competition with her sisters in church over silly clothing, but one in "common wear" and "uniformity". ("tsk tsk, did you see what *insert name* was wearing??") It leaves so much worldly woman baggage at the door.

I don't know if women's minds really understand this -> But as a man, I mean deep down, I could care less what I wear. I never ever am jealous (or never have been) of another man's clothes... In fact, I don't even remember what other guys wear or notice. I remember how engines and plumbing pipes work and such. In fact, I can tell you the gap on my lawnmower's spark plugs and oil type. I sat across from a brother in fellowship meal last week, I remember his face, and his glasses - but seriously, I can't remember one detail about his clothing, shoes, shirt, or pants.

I know women are WAY more detail oriented. My wife sees stuff I'd never in my life see. (really curtains that match a chair - amazing!) She thinks of stuff I'd never in my life think about. Women think more on an emotional level I believe, and men more in logical levels (there is the perfect balance).

So with this, I believe the plain dress is more for the death of her flesh, than to bear witness. The modesty is not to glorify her flesh, but to conceal. The covering covers her glory for her husband only.

Witnessing is always important, and if the dress does it I'm all for it. Should men be dead in the flesh? Absolutely! But for me putting on suspenders and a white shirt would be much more pomp. Putting on my thrift store button down and pants I seriously think nothing about. I'd rather my clothes be thoughtless.

I believe also men witness to each other more through character. I am open to ideas on all this though.
Plain dress does not stop this though. Young girls stilled picked on another girl based on her fabric. I could not see the difference but somehow she was made fun of for it.

Other sisters always noticed when I had a new dress. Bottom line, is it is the heart that matters. If your heart is set on material things it does not matter what you wear.

Men can be this way too. One church we attended the men would always talk about my Husband's suits. They wore jeans and button ups. We were always taught to wear your best to the house of the Lord out of respect so we would. They would make comments like you are the, "Best dress carpenter we have ever seen." I can not imagine they expected him to wear his work clothes but who knows.
0 x
Let’s read the whole bible together in 30 days!
If interested you can view my profile and go to my website.

2 Tim. 3:16-17
User avatar
ohio jones
Posts: 5222
Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2016 11:23 pm
Location: undisclosed
Affiliation: Rosedale Network

Re: Brother's Witness Through Dress

Post by ohio jones »

A plain-cut coat sighted in an unexpected place:

"I hope I survive 'the cut' "
0 x
I grew up around Indiana, You grew up around Galilee; And if I ever really do grow up, I wanna grow up to be just like You -- Rich Mullins

I am a Christian and my name is Pilgram; I'm on a journey, but I'm not alone -- NewSong, slightly edited
User avatar
TeleBodyofChrist
Posts: 96
Joined: Tue Mar 07, 2017 10:20 am
Location: Traveler
Affiliation: Christian
Contact:

Re: Brother's Witness Through Dress

Post by TeleBodyofChrist »

Sudsy wrote:I don't see in scripture where we need to dress in a certain way to draw attention to our religion. Jesus said to be a city set on a hill (quite obvious) or allowing our lights to shine it should be due to our good deeds and those other areas I mentioned previously. If these are as obvious as I believe they are supposed to be (and I certainly fall short here), we will get some inquiries about our faith and considerable persecution.

There was a time that I thought of joining the Salvation Army as a uniform was quite appealing to me as a witness. The Salvation Army developed a uniform so that they could easily be identified in public as a source of help and service. Within their church these uniforms had some add-ons for identifying the role one was serving in the church. However, what they experienced from some immigrants got the opposite response as some were fleeing a country where uniformed people were ones to be feared. Their uniforms today would not be adequate enough for many CM standards of modesty from what I have read (i.e optional short sleeves). The main argument I have against wearing some kind of uniform to identify us as a certain brand of Christian, is that it begs the question - why don't all Christians dress the same ? Doesn't a uniform sort of say - I am of Paul, or I am of Appollos or I am of Peter ?

Anyway, when we do get asked about our faith (whether it be by dress or something we abstain from or), do we talk about Jesus or about submitting to a requirement by our group or something else ? I have found myself at times talking about my church and ending there when I had a chance to say why I do or don't do something because of Jesus in my life. And then I feel bad that I missed out on an opportunity to share my faith in Jesus.

I have a rock in my front driveway that I had engraved 'Jesus Is Lord'. This is one of those identifiers not soken of in scripture. I was hoping someone would ask me what that meant but folks normally just don't say anything, even when we are standing close to it in conversation. And like you, I do feel that others are watching my life with this open statement and it makes me be more careful. It also reminds me each day of who is Lord and how I need to recognize that in all areas of my life. So, I use this as an identifier but I keep seeing in scripture this should not be my main identifier of being a Christ follower.

We have lots of cape dresses worn in our area and a kerchief. What really hits me as odd is that along with these modest cape dresses most wear modern day running shoes and often the latest bright coloured ones. Perhaps non-conformity ends at the ankles, I don't know. The men are somewhat unique in our area as plaid, western style shirts with ball styles hats are quite common among the various Mennonites. I just haven't noticed short pants on men but this wouldn't cause me to ask about their faith regardless of how hot the weather becomes.

Interesting subject.
It is. I guess what I am trying to get to is the understanding on why the difference between Sisters and Brothers. Is it not somewhat a double standard?
0 x
Let’s read the whole bible together in 30 days!
If interested you can view my profile and go to my website.

2 Tim. 3:16-17
Sudsy
Posts: 5859
Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2017 3:32 pm
Affiliation: .

Re: Brother's Witness Through Dress

Post by Sudsy »

TeleBodyofChrist wrote: It is. I guess what I am trying to get to is the understanding on why the difference between Sisters and Brothers. Is it not somewhat a double standard?
Seems to me that a double standard exists in other areas also when it comes to being obedient. Women get hit pretty hard with taking what scripture literally about outward adornmments in 1 Timothy 2:9-12 but just prior to that men are told in verse 8 - "I desire then that in every place men should pray, lifting holy hands without anger or quarreling;". And is this ever preached to be taken literally ? No, most often men don't pray with lifted hands.

How often are women told to be submissive to their husbands compared to how often men are told to love their wives as Christ loves the church and gave Himself for her ? I would say the former gets much more attention.

In the area of dress, women do get far more attention than men and perhaps because certain specifics were mentioned in scripture (hairdos, gold, costly wear). Things like short pants and short sleeves were not an issue in that culture. But if the issue is really all about drawing the wrong kind of attention to ourselves, which I think it is, then there are all kinds of things men wear today that draws the wrong attention.
0 x
Pursuing a Kingdom life in the Spirit
Post Reply