Doing Penance

[MaxPC]

In our church, Lent is a time for examining our consciences, self reflection and penance. Is there a practice of penance in Anabaptist fellowships or is there another view that's held?

[Josh]

In our church, Lent is a time for examining our consciences, self reflection and penance. Is there a practice of penance in Anabaptist fellowships or is there another view that's held?

Liberal Mennonites started practicing Lent a few decades ago. Plain Anabaptists refrain from such practices, believing them to be unscriptural. We believe fasting and prayer are to be practiced year round.

We do not believe in "penance". Sin must be quickly repented of and dealt with, or else the church must enact discipline.

Sin cannot be atoned for by man. We have to repent, but only Jesus can wash away sin, and that's a free gift.

[Valerie]

In our church, Lent is a time for examining our consciences, self reflection and penance. Is there a practice of penance in Anabaptist fellowships or is there another view that's held?

Liberal Mennonites started practicing Lent a few decades ago. Plain Anabaptists refrain from such practices, believing them to be unscriptural. We believe fasting and prayer are to be practiced year round.

We do not believe in "penance". Sin must be quickly repented of and dealt with, or else the church must enact discipline.

Sin cannot be atoned for by man. We have to repent, but only Jesus can wash away sin, and that's a free gift.

Jesus, John the Baptist- did elude to it as well as His Apostles and the early church writings teach it as well, example:

Luke 3:8
Therefore produce fruit worthy of repentance. And do not begin to say to yourselves, 'We have Abraham as our father.' For I tell you that out of these stones God can raise up children for Abraham.

Acts 26:20
But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.

Evangelicals would see it just like Josh- the ancient churches see it more like Jesus taught & the Apostles- from reading early church history-

[Sudsy]

Jesus, John the Baptist- did elude to it as well as His Apostles and the early church writings teach it as well, example:

Luke 3:8
Therefore produce fruit worthy of repentance. And do not begin to say to yourselves, 'We have Abraham as our father.' For I tell you that out of these stones God can raise up children for Abraham.

Acts 26:20
But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.

Evangelicals would see it just like Josh- the ancient churches see it more like Jesus taught & the Apostles- from reading early church history-

I would read these verses as prove by the way you live that you have repented of your sins and turned to God. Just like faith without works is dead, repenting without accompanying signs of turning is dead. I don't see where outward self-punishment inflicted on ourselves is necessary other than turning from a sin. Perhaps I don't understand "penance" as I recall it to be some self inflicted pain as a means of proving your repentance (i.e. climbing stairs on your knees and saying a prayer on each). To me, turning our back on sin upon confession is what is required to be the fruit of repentance. Yes/No ?

[Judas Maccabeus]

In our church, Lent is a time for examining our consciences, self reflection and penance. Is there a practice of penance in Anabaptist fellowships or is there another view that's held?

Liberal Mennonites started practicing Lent a few decades ago. Plain Anabaptists refrain from such practices, believing them to be unscriptural. We believe fasting and prayer are to be practiced year round.

We do not believe in "penance". Sin must be quickly repented of and dealt with, or else the church must enact discipline.

Sin cannot be atoned for by man. We have to repent, but only Jesus can wash away sin, and that's a free gift.

Jesus, John the Baptist- did elude to it as well as His Apostles and the early church writings teach it as well, example:

Luke 3:8
Therefore produce fruit worthy of repentance. And do not begin to say to yourselves, 'We have Abraham as our father.' For I tell you that out of these stones God can raise up children for Abraham.

Acts 26:20
But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.

Evangelicals would see it just like Josh- the ancient churches see it more like Jesus taught & the Apostles- from reading early church history-

Uhh.....repentence is turning away from sin
pennance is doing deeds to atone for sins.

Two different concepts.

J.M.

[Valerie]

Liberal Mennonites started practicing Lent a few decades ago. Plain Anabaptists refrain from such practices, believing them to be unscriptural. We believe fasting and prayer are to be practiced year round.

We do not believe in "penance". Sin must be quickly repented of and dealt with, or else the church must enact discipline.

Sin cannot be atoned for by man. We have to repent, but only Jesus can wash away sin, and that's a free gift.

Jesus, John the Baptist- did elude to it as well as His Apostles and the early church writings teach it as well, example:

Luke 3:8
Therefore produce fruit worthy of repentance. And do not begin to say to yourselves, 'We have Abraham as our father.' For I tell you that out of these stones God can raise up children for Abraham.

Acts 26:20
But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.

Evangelicals would see it just like Josh- the ancient churches see it more like Jesus taught & the Apostles- from reading early church history-

Uhh.....repentence is turning away from sin
pennance is doing deeds to atone for sins.

Two different concepts.

J.M.

So are you saying pennance is an 'additional' atonement to the blood of Christ that atones for sins? Is that the Catholic understanding? Or is it more 'works worthy of repentance' (in other words, repentance PLUS works but not to 'atone' but like Zacchaeus- for example-

[MaxPC]

Uhh.....repentence is turning away from sin
pennance is doing deeds to atone for sins.

Two different concepts.

J.M.

Interesting: in Catholic World "penance" is an outward act of expressing repentance/sorrow for something we've done. An example would be going to another and apologizing sincerely for a wrong; or paying for the repair of damaged property.

We believe only Jesus' sacrifice atoned for our sins. Still, as part of our repentance we do penance (make amends) - it helps us to remember the lesson for our mistakes, much as you would have your child pay for the window he broke so that he will remember the lesson.

JM, I have heard of people doing as you describe but most of those I've encountered weren't part of an established fellowship. I think the Anabaptists along with Catholics and other established groups have more carefully worded definitions.

As with any of it, YMMV.

[Judas Maccabeus]

Uhh.....repentence is turning away from sin
pennance is doing deeds to atone for sins.

Two different concepts.

J.M.

Interesting: in Catholic World "penance" is an outward act of expressing repentance/sorrow for something we've done. An example would be going to another and apologizing sincerely for a wrong; or paying for the repair of damaged property.

We believe only Jesus' sacrifice atoned for our sins. Still, as part of our repentance we do penance (make amends) - it helps us to remember the lesson for our mistakes, much as you would have your child pay for the window he broke so that he will remember the lesson.

JM, I have heard of people doing as you describe but most of those I've encountered weren't part of an established fellowship. I think the Anabaptists along with Catholics and other established groups have more carefully worded definitions.

As with any of it, YMMV.

I don't know, as a young person I was given a whole lot of Hail Marys to say, and clearly remember that absoulution did not occur until you had actually done this. If that is not deeds atoning for sin, I don't know what is.

J.M.

[ken_sylvania]

Uhh.....repentence is turning away from sin
pennance is doing deeds to atone for sins.

Two different concepts.

J.M.

Interesting: in Catholic World "penance" is an outward act of expressing repentance/sorrow for something we've done. An example would be going to another and apologizing sincerely for a wrong; or paying for the repair of damaged property.

We believe only Jesus' sacrifice atoned for our sins. Still, as part of our repentance we do penance (make amends) - it helps us to remember the lesson for our mistakes, much as you would have your child pay for the window he broke so that he will remember the lesson.

JM, I have heard of people doing as you describe but most of those I've encountered weren't part of an established fellowship. I think the Anabaptists along with Catholics and other established groups have more carefully worded definitions.

As with any of it, YMMV.

Max according to the Catechism of the Catholic Church, the "Sacrament of Penance" involves a priest forgiving a person's sins in the name of Jesus Christ, and determining the manner of satisfaction.

Christ instituted the sacrament of Penance for all sinful members of his Church: above all for those who, since Baptism, have fallen into grave sin, and have thus lost their baptismal grace and wounded ecclesial communion. It is to them that the sacrament of Penance offers a new possibility to convert and to recover the grace of justification. the Fathers of the Church present this sacrament as "the second plank [of salvation] after the shipwreck which is the loss of grace."
Over the centuries the concrete form in which the Church has exercised this power received from the Lord has varied considerably. During the first centuries the reconciliation of Christians who had committed particularly grave sins after their Baptism (for example, idolatry, murder, or adultery) was tied to a very rigorous discipline, according to which penitents had to do public penance for their sins, often for years, before receiving reconciliation. To this "order of penitents" (which concerned only certain grave sins), one was only rarely admitted and in certain regions only once in a lifetime. During the seventh century Irish missionaries, inspired by the Eastern monastic tradition, took to continental Europe the "private" practice of penance, which does not require public and prolonged completion of penitential works before reconciliation with the Church. From that time on, the sacrament has been performed in secret between penitent and priest. This new practice envisioned the possibility of repetition and so opened the way to a regular frequenting of this sacrament. It allowed the forgiveness of grave sins and venial sins to be integrated into one sacramental celebration. In its main lines this is the form of penance that the Church has practiced down to our day.
Beneath the changes in discipline and celebration that this sacrament has undergone over the centuries, the same fundamental structure is to be discerned. It comprises two equally essential elements: on the one hand, the acts of the man who undergoes conversion through the action of the Holy Spirit: namely, contrition, confession, and satisfaction; on the other, God's action through the intervention of the Church. the Church, who through the bishop and his priests forgives sins in the name of Jesus Christ and determines the manner of satisfaction, also prays for the sinner and does penance with him. Thus the sinner is healed and re-established in ecclesial communion.

According to the Catholic Encyclopedia, penance includes the idea that a repentant sinner needs to make reparation to divine justice. Anabaptists reject this notion. We understand from Scripture that there is nothing we can do to make reparation for our sin, let alone the sins of others (the Roman Catholic teaching of reparation says a person can make satisfaction and reparation for the sins of other people). Jesus never taught that we can grow closer to God by inflicting pain and suffering on ourselves.

[ken_sylvania]

Uhh.....repentence is turning away from sin
pennance is doing deeds to atone for sins.

Two different concepts.

J.M.

Interesting: in Catholic World "penance" is an outward act of expressing repentance/sorrow for something we've done. An example would be going to another and apologizing sincerely for a wrong; or paying for the repair of damaged property.

We believe only Jesus' sacrifice atoned for our sins. Still, as part of our repentance we do penance (make amends) - it helps us to remember the lesson for our mistakes, much as you would have your child pay for the window he broke so that he will remember the lesson.

JM, I have heard of people doing as you describe but most of those I've encountered weren't part of an established fellowship. I think the Anabaptists along with Catholics and other established groups have more carefully worded definitions.

As with any of it, YMMV.

Max, how does this idea of penance come into play when a person sins only against God but not necessarily against another person. For instance, suppose a person was out working by himself, had things go wrong, and experienced a fit of anger. Would penance be required? If so, what kind?