Standards vs Reality

Christian ethics and theology with an Anabaptist perspective
Signtist
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Re: Standards vs Reality

Post by Signtist »

Haystack wrote:There's a lot of good insight and discussion in this topic, thank you for starting it. Unfortunately as a NMB I can't help but feel I should bite my tongue and not say anything.
Please don't keep quiet. If it's burning in you badly enough that you need to bite your tongue to keep it in, we want to hear it! I'm from MB, my wife is not. And this is a valuable discussion to have here, I think.
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Josh
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Re: Standards vs Reality

Post by Josh »

Signtist wrote:
Haystack wrote:There's a lot of good insight and discussion in this topic, thank you for starting it. Unfortunately as a NMB I can't help but feel I should bite my tongue and not say anything.
Please don't keep quiet. If it's burning in you badly enough that you need to bite your tongue to keep it in, we want to hear it! I'm from MB, my wife is not. And this is a valuable discussion to have here, I think.
I can say for a fact that talking about issues you have faced in church on MennoNet is unwise, unless you plan to burn a lot of bridges.
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Judas Maccabeus
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Re: Standards vs Reality

Post by Judas Maccabeus »

Josh wrote:
Signtist wrote:
Haystack wrote:There's a lot of good insight and discussion in this topic, thank you for starting it. Unfortunately as a NMB I can't help but feel I should bite my tongue and not say anything.
Please don't keep quiet. If it's burning in you badly enough that you need to bite your tongue to keep it in, we want to hear it! I'm from MB, my wife is not. And this is a valuable discussion to have here, I think.
I can say for a fact that talking about issues you have faced in church on MennoNet is unwise, unless you plan to burn a lot of bridges.
Or you are quite sure nobody knows your handle. My pastor happens to have figured out mine. In other words, a bit of discretion may be in order.

J.M.
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Wade
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Re: Standards vs Reality

Post by Wade »

Josh wrote:
Signtist wrote:
Haystack wrote:There's a lot of good insight and discussion in this topic, thank you for starting it. Unfortunately as a NMB I can't help but feel I should bite my tongue and not say anything.
Please don't keep quiet. If it's burning in you badly enough that you need to bite your tongue to keep it in, we want to hear it! I'm from MB, my wife is not. And this is a valuable discussion to have here, I think.
I can say for a fact that talking about issues you have faced in church on MennoNet is unwise, unless you plan to burn a lot of bridges.
My identity is obvious... If I burn bridges for myself but help anyone then it is worth it. If I haven't helped anyone then woe is me...
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TeleBodyofChrist
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Re: Standards vs Reality

Post by TeleBodyofChrist »

I am glad I brought this up! This is really a discussion we should be having in our churches and conferences not just the NMB going in but MBs transferring to another church. It is hard to reach a way forward if no one knows there is a problem or should I say misunderstanding.

This is a issue that will not be solved immediately as there are a lot of factors that contribute to individual circumstances.

As for fear of identification... I always say what I would say to someone's face. I am respectful but honest about the experience because I would want someone to do that for me. If they are upset about someone asking others on a public forum for understanding then maybe they should think about why that brother or sister needed to do that.

We need to put God's kingdom first, and not worry about blame (I am not saying that anyone is thinking that here). Often times we as humans become defensive because we think someone is making us look bad or our church instead of hearing them.

There are a lot of good points here that have me filled with so many thoughts that are hard to articulate. Maybe I will find a way later.
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Judas Maccabeus
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Re: Standards vs Reality

Post by Judas Maccabeus »

Judas Maccabeus wrote:
Josh wrote:
Signtist wrote:Please don't keep quiet. If it's burning in you badly enough that you need to bite your tongue to keep it in, we want to hear it! I'm from MB, my wife is not. And this is a valuable discussion to have here, I think.
I can say for a fact that talking about issues you have faced in church on MennoNet is unwise, unless you plan to burn a lot of bridges.
Or you are quite sure nobody knows your handle. My pastor happens to have figured out mine. In other words, a bit of discretion may be in order.

J.M.
That may not be all bad. I guess I say the same sort of things here as I do to him. At least there is a bit of accountability in this. If there was something that I thought was really wrong, he would surely know long before it was discussed here.

J.M.
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Signtist
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Re: Standards vs Reality

Post by Signtist »

A lot of folks born and raised as Mennonites (I know, I know, nobody is born mennonite) actually have no clue what some people from other backgrounds have gone through. Walking away from any culture and trying to fit into a new culture is hard enough. If someone goes from a non-Christian to Christian culture it's hard for us to grasp just what they had to all walk away from.

Failing to grasp the magnitude of the changes that people have gone through, or are going through, can lead to problems. Failing to appreciate just how far someone has come while focusing on where we think they should be also leads to problems. While we give lip service to our trust in the Holy Spirit's direction, far too often in our Mennonite culture we use rules as a vehicle to facilitate sanctification in others. When we top this off with "standard vs.reality", nothing but confusion will be forthcoming. And yes, there are churches where this double standard exists. I have witnessed it first hand. There are also many where it does not, for which I am grateful. Another point I believe to be true is that a church that has this disparity will also hold a newcomer with no Mennonite history to a different standard than "their own." In addition to this, there will be different standards for different of "their own."

God is not the author of what?
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Hats Off
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Re: Standards vs Reality

Post by Hats Off »

Signtist wrote:A lot of folks born and raised as Mennonites (I know, I know, nobody is born mennonite) actually have no clue what some people from other backgrounds have gone through. Walking away from any culture and trying to fit into a new culture is hard enough. If someone goes from a non-Christian to Christian culture it's hard for us to grasp just what they had to all walk away from.

Failing to grasp the magnitude of the changes that people have gone through, or are going through, can lead to problems. Failing to appreciate just how far someone has come while focusing on where we think they should be also leads to problems. While we give lip service to our trust in the Holy Spirit's direction, far too often in our Mennonite culture we use rules as a vehicle to facilitate sanctification in others. When we top this off with "standard vs.reality", nothing but confusion will be forthcoming. And yes, there are churches where this double standard exists. I have witnessed it first hand. There are also many where it does not, for which I am grateful. Another point I believe to be true is that a church that has this disparity will also hold a newcomer with no Mennonite history to a different standard than "their own." In addition to this, there will be different standards for different of "their own."

God is not the author of what?
:up: Thanks for a view from the voice of experience! We truly have no idea and can't really have except for what we get from people like you and yours.
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Judas Maccabeus
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Re: Standards vs Reality

Post by Judas Maccabeus »

Signtist wrote:A lot of folks born and raised as Mennonites (I know, I know, nobody is born mennonite) actually have no clue what some people from other backgrounds have gone through. Walking away from any culture and trying to fit into a new culture is hard enough. If someone goes from a non-Christian to Christian culture it's hard for us to grasp just what they had to all walk away from.

Failing to grasp the magnitude of the changes that people have gone through, or are going through, can lead to problems. Failing to appreciate just how far someone has come while focusing on where we think they should be also leads to problems. While we give lip service to our trust in the Holy Spirit's direction, far too often in our Mennonite culture we use rules as a vehicle to facilitate sanctification in others. When we top this off with "standard vs.reality", nothing but confusion will be forthcoming. And yes, there are churches where this double standard exists. I have witnessed it first hand. There are also many where it does not, for which I am grateful. Another point I believe to be true is that a church that has this disparity will also hold a newcomer with no Mennonite history to a different standard than "their own." In addition to this, there will be different standards for different of "their own."

God is not the author of what?
My first Bishop put the standards in the context of "promises we make to each other." Some of the things we promise may not be wrong in a Biblical or moral sense, but is part of the joy and burden of being part of a fellowship that takes what Jesus said as expressed in the New Testament seriously. We all may have occasion to fail, but it is the fellowship that is to lift you back up. I have found this to be true.

I have nothing but sympathy, and maybe a bit of pity for someone who walks into a place where this is not the case.

J.M.
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Josh
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Re: Standards vs Reality

Post by Josh »

Sometimes I don't know how I got so lucky. I've learned there are some scary corners of the Anabaptist world.

Somehow I ended up in places with lots and lots of love. And somehow some of my friends to move and follow me to church. I cringe to think if I had got them into a bad situation!!

Nowadays it is snowballing, with that friend in turn wanting to bring in another one of his friends into the community who has major spiritual and earthly need. I can only pray for the loving shepherd of the sheep to help guide the ministry at that church and every visitor into his sheepfold. The problems we all face and the threat of worldliness, false doctrine, and losing our first love are too big for me to fix.
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