The Amish: American's Fastest Growing Church?

Christian ethics and theology with an Anabaptist perspective
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Josh
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Re: The Amish: American's Fastest Growing Church?

Post by Josh »

Gene wrote:It does seem obvious that the extreme view of shunning practiced by the Amish, one I find to be less than biblical, has much to do with retention. However, this maybe primarily due to the stark contrast with the wider practice of reducing Christianity to a mental exercise completely bereft of cultural markers, which is why we consider it so shocking. Perhaps if evangelicals at large took seriously that Jesus had something to say about how we live in addition to salvation by grace alone, we would not consider the Amish beliefs regarding church discipline quite so objectionable.
In my own denomination we do practice more church discipline than a typical Conservative Mennonite church does let alone a generic evangelical church. We do not practice strict social avoidance, but there are consequences to being excommunicated. About 75% of those who are, eventually are restored to full fellowship. (Weaver 2017)

The most common reason is for sexual immorality, and most commonly amongst people aged 18-25. (Weaver 2017)

An excommunicant can still attend church but his or her involvement will be limited, and members are discouraged from spending a great deal of time one on one unless there are signs of repentance.

Now my question is: when people fall into fornication, adultery, and other grievous sexual immorality, is it improper to shun them to a degree?
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temporal1
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Re: The Amish: American's Fastest Growing Church?

Post by temporal1 »

To refresh this discussion, and to add Bill Rushby's thread - :)
Thanks for pointing this out, Bill, i missed Mike's thread.
This topic was discussed now+then on MD, looks like the Fastest Growing trend continues.
Re: Anabaptist Demography
by Bill Rushby » Mon Jul 10, 2017 2:04 pm

I was unaware that Mike had already started a thread based on the article we are discussing.
I suggest that we move this discussion to that thread.
Re: Anabaptist Demography
by Bill Rushby » Mon Jul 10, 2017 2:04 pm

I was unaware that Mike had already started a thread based on the article we are discussing. I suggest that we move this discussion to that thread.
http://forum.mennonet.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=664
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Valerie
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Re: The Amish: American's Fastest Growing Church?

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Josh wrote: Now my question is: when people fall into fornication, adultery, and other grievous sexual immorality, is it improper to shun them to a degree?
Did you mean while they are yet in these sins? Or do you mean even after they have repented? AND what exactly does repentance look like in this-

I'm asking because I have a friend whose daughter is being somewhat ostracized for her falling- & my friend feels their church is being very judgemental and treating her as if 'they had no sin'- which is an attitude many people have- he who has no sin cast the first stone- so as Christians, we really have a difficult time navigating through these situations the way Jesus would at times it seems-
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Josh
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Re: The Amish: American's Fastest Growing Church?

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I mean when still in their sins, justifying them, or trying to hide them. Not being repentant and saying what they did is wrong and seeking help to not offend again.
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Re: The Amish: American's Fastest Growing Church?

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Josh wrote:There are no consequences to never joining Amish church. The consequences are for joining as an adult and then leaving.

That makes it even more perplexing so many 18 to 20 year olds choose to join.

Incidentally, similar statistics hold forth in the CGC, Mennonite, with similar consequences for joining and leaving.
I don't know Josh- there are some consequences, for not joining- I think they never really feel part of the family if they don't- even though they are not totally shunned-

MAP Ministry posted this today- this young man- how is he being ministered to by the Amish he comes from? Does one have to be "Amish" to be considered a real Christian, by the Amish, and by their own family?

here's what he wrote to Joe- and why Joe has spent years trying to help those who do not want to be Amish and many of those when leaving, end up in a bad situation because they really haven't received a lot of spiritual nurturing-

"The following is an email our ministry received this morning. It comes from an Amish boy in OH: My name is Matt and I live in the area of __________. My parents kicked me out quite a while ago do I was living with my grandparents and 2 days ago they also kicked me out after me living with them for last September.
They knew the way I am they new I had plans to yank over for a very long time and knew I was not gonna act very Amish. So the other day I bought a 4 wheeler because I'm 20 years old and I don't drive horse and buggy never wanted to and I don't have friends and never have anything to do. Well I don't know much about 4 wheeler and it was a cheap Chinese one and broke down the second day well they kicked me out because of it and now I'm homeless and don't know what to do."

So MAP is there to help these that don't want to be Amish- and many of these have gone on to really serve Christ- become missionaries in other countries, etc-

Just saying- some of them are not treated well for not becoming Amish as well- of course there may be much more to the story- just saying, the pressure is there, many become Amish, because of that pressure- have heard that from several i knew personally-
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Re: The Amish: American's Fastest Growing Church?

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Josh wrote:I mean when still in their sins, justifying them, or trying to hide them. Not being repentant and saying what they did is wrong and seeking help to not offend again.
Thank you- I think the average church falls short in knowing how to properly handle these situations- Apostle Paul made some things clear on this, but I really don't see it being practiced because it seems too harsh or too judgemental-to many people. Yet- in the long run, I think it is better for the souls of people in sin, to handle things as Apostle Paul instructed- that is WHY he gave the instructions-- but leadership in many churches falls short of this as well- there's much room for improvement! (from our personal observation & experience, that is)
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Re: The Amish: American's Fastest Growing Church?

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If someone decides to be atheist who grew up in an evangelical family, they never quite fit in either and are not "fully accepted" by their family. And atheist people all have sob stories exactly like this about their mean, mean Christian parents who turned them out.
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Re: The Amish: American's Fastest Growing Church?

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Josh wrote:If someone decides to be atheist who grew up in an evangelical family, they never quite fit in either and are not "fully accepted" by their family. And atheist people all have sob stories exactly like this about their mean, mean Christian parents who turned them out.
Well you should be thankful that you were born in a family where you have the freedom to choose how you wish to follow Christ, without any condemnation for it, nor pressure- it seems if we all agree that Amish have it right and their children who wish to leave have it wrong, then we would all be Amish- I have heard many many testimonies of Christians who were born into Amish families and some pretty heartbreaking stories (one even was 'given away' to another Amish family that couldn't have children, so that he could WORK for this other Amish family- yes, given away by his parents. He worked from sunup to sundown from a very young age, and looked forward to school starting so life would get easier- it is no wonder he left Amish AND anything Christian until the Father called him out of darkness into His marvelous light). There are other Amish families who have truly found Christ and serving Him in their way- but just to say- there is a place for those ministering to Amish who leave because they do not feel like following Christ means you have to be Amish- and yes, all children who are rebellious to the faith should be expected to have to leave home if they are living in sin, but driving a car, is not sin- nor owning a fourwheeler- nor many other reasons they are asked to leave. Again if we believe they have it all right I guess we would all be Amish- but children who wish to follow Christ in other denominations that they agree with more- should not be made to feel like outcasts, and some have been made outcasts by becoming Mennonite as well- Don't get me wrong, I love the Amish, admire them greatly but there are some very sad stories too- which I won't pretend to not be aware of.
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Re: The Amish: American's Fastest Growing Church?

Post by RZehr »

I think it is good to remember that there are thousands of Amish and they not monolithic. And on issues like these it is very unfair to view them all together. Take any group of people this size and you will be able to find unregenerate or ignorant hypocrites that are not representative of the whole.
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KingdomBuilder
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Re: The Amish: American's Fastest Growing Church?

Post by KingdomBuilder »

I thought the fastest growing in the US/CA were JW and LDS.
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