Three types of Anabaptists - which one are you? [POLL]

[Dan Z]

This is a poll for people who identify as Anabaptist.

There appear to be three broad Anabaptist perspectives on faith and politics here on MennoNet. Which one of these categories best describes you (see POLL)? (Of course, these are generalizations – feel free to explain the nuances of your position in the thread).

• 1) Conservative-minded Anabaptist - High view of biblical authority; Traditional regarding marriage, simple lifestyle, divorce, sexuality, and gender roles within home & church; Personally non-resistant, but supportive of second amendment rights, and society's need for a strong police/military; Upholds individual responsibility & autonomy, along with a steadfast a commitment to a local fellowship; Strong distrust of globalism, big government, and its social programs; Favors lower taxation and less regulation; Sympathetic to patriotism and nationalism; Want robust immigration controls; Skeptical of government health policies; Strongly against abortion; Believes charity should come primarily from the individual and church, not state wealth redistribution.
  
  2) "Third-Way" Anabaptist – Biblicist who prioritize radical obedience to Christ & His apostles - including non-resistance, non-accumulation, sexual & marital purity, exceptional love and forgiveness, servanthood, and empathy for the poor, marginalized, & displaced; Worldview framed by “two-kingdom theology” - working toward both the present and future reign of Christ within the context of a Christian faith community; Aloof from politics & voting, and deliberately independent from progressive and conservative ideologies, seeing them ultimately in conflict with Christ’s Kingdom; Rejecting both secular globalism and nationalism; Valuing the sanctity of all life, thus against all forms killing - nonsupportive of war, euthanasia, abortion, & capital punishment.
  
  3) Progressive-minded Anabaptist - Nuanced in approach to Scripture; Strong faith-driven motivation toward peace and social justice, emphasizing Christ's heart for the marginalized; Egalitarian-minded in family and church leadership roles, and community-minded in approach to faith & life; Prioritizes "love over law" in relation to sexuality, divorce, and other human complexities; Against state-sponsored killing including warfare and capital punishment; Want abortions reduced, but not necessarily by outlawing choice; Supportive of gun control; Would like less military spending replaced by more programs to help those less advantaged; Sympathetic to civil rights initiatives in the face of systemic racism and inequities; Believes in living simply and that climate change is a global threat.

How have you come to the perspective you hold?

Where might you differ from these three perspectives?

What do you wish those in the other perspectives would better understand about your point of view?

Let’s keep the discussion as positive as possible – avoiding insults and platitudes as befitting Christian brethren.

[joshuabgood]

# 2.

You could have added vaccine positions to the options

1) Anti-Covid Vaccine - bc Covid is like the flu and the vaccines are built on the backs of aborted babies and government generally isn't trustworthy and the Dr's like Fauci are irresponsible and "out to get theirliberties" through government over-reach/control
2) Embrace the vaccine and believe it is scientifically valid and that Dr.s like Fauci generally have the best public interest in mind, though they also believe health care is ultimately a personal choice and should not coerced
3) The govt should mandate vaccines for all.

[Heirbyadoption]

# 2.

You could have added vaccine positions to the options

1) Anti-Covid Vaccine - bc Covid is like the flu and the vaccines are built on the backs of aborted babies and government generally isn't trustworthy and the Dr's like Fauci are irresponsible and "out to get theirliberties" through government over-reach/control
2) Embrace the vaccine and believe it is scientifically valid and that Dr.s like Fauci generally have the best public interest in mind, though they also believe health care is ultimately a personal choice and should not coerced
3) The govt should mandate vaccines for all.

Unfortunately, that particular aspect (vaccine position) isn't uniformly tailored to 1, 2, and 3... And the vaccine position aspect contains at least a 4th option for the vaccine-hesitant/discerning, and maybe a 5th one as well...

[Ken]

Are you trying to just characterize Anabaptists here on Mennonet? Or in the wider world?

Because, for example, the few Amish I happen to know (that I am actually related to) would most definitely be considered Conservative. But they don’t to my eye engage in much if any thought or energy on any outside political issues whether they be 2nd Amendment rights, government regulation, abortion law, or anything else. Those are all “worldly affairs” which they don’t concern themselves with. But they are also environmental-minded, concerned about protecting God’s creation, and concerned about human-caused climate change.

Conversely I also know plenty of people who attend liberal MCUSA type churches and are fine with the theology (women in leadership, LGBT rights etc.) But who are very conservative politically.

Here on Mennonet it seems that both religious and political beliefs align on the same liberal to conservative spectrums. But I’m not sure that is necessarily always the case in the real world.

[ohio jones]

1.64

[Dan Z]

# 2.

You could have added vaccine positions to the options

1) Anti-Covid Vaccine - bc Covid is like the flu and the vaccines are built on the backs of aborted babies and government generally isn't trustworthy and the Dr's like Fauci are irresponsible and "out to get theirliberties" through government over-reach/control
2) Embrace the vaccine and believe it is scientifically valid and that Dr.s like Fauci generally have the best public interest in mind, though they also believe health care is ultimately a personal choice and should not coerced
3) The govt should mandate vaccines for all.

Unfortunately, that particular aspect (vaccine position) isn't uniformly tailored to 1, 2, and 3... And the vaccine position aspect contains at least a 4th option for the vaccine-hesitant/discerning, and maybe a 5th one as well...

Right - that's why I didn't include it...although what JBG said probably holds generally at least.

[Dan Z]

1.64

I suspect we're all on a continuum somewhere.

[Dan Z]

Are you trying to just characterize Anabaptists here on Mennonet? Or in the wider world?

Because, for example, the few Amish I happen to know (that I am actually related to) would most definitely be considered Conservative. But they don’t to my eye engage in much if any thought or energy on any outside political issues whether they be 2nd Amendment rights, government regulation, abortion law, or anything else. Those are all “worldly affairs” which they don’t concern themselves with. But they are also environmental-minded, concerned about protecting God’s creation, and concerned about human-caused climate change.

Here on Mennonet it seems that both religious and political beliefs align on the same liberal to conservative spectrums. But I’m not sure that is necessarily always the case in the real world.

I think I was thinking mostly of those on MN.

But I do suspect, if pressed, many Amish do have opinions on a lot of these issues that would ferret out a guiding worldview that one way or another (BTW - I wouldn't expect an Amish or Hutterite person to last long in the Amish community with a progressive-type mindset.)

[Ken]

Are you trying to just characterize Anabaptists here on Mennonet? Or in the wider world?

Because, for example, the few Amish I happen to know (that I am actually related to) would most definitely be considered Conservative. But they don’t to my eye engage in much if any thought or energy on any outside political issues whether they be 2nd Amendment rights, government regulation, abortion law, or anything else. Those are all “worldly affairs” which they don’t concern themselves with. But they are also environmental-minded, concerned about protecting God’s creation, and concerned about human-caused climate change.

Here on Mennonet it seems that both religious and political beliefs align on the same liberal to conservative spectrums. But I’m not sure that is necessarily always the case in the real world.

I think I was thinking mostly of those on MN.

But I do suspect, if pressed, many Amish do have opinions on a lot of these issues that would ferret out a guiding worldview that one way or another (BTW - I wouldn't expect an Amish or Hutterite person to last long in the Amish community with a progressive-type mindset.)

I guess it depends on what you mean by a progressive mindset. Unfortunately in our modern world everything seems to have been politicized.

But, for example, I was out visiting family in PA this past summer for a reunion and had an interesting chat with a second (or 3rd?) cousin who is old order Amish. We had a long and interesting discussion about climate change and how it has been affecting agriculture, the seasons, and the environment around Central PA. He keeps very detailed climate and weather observations. Something with which he was very interested and concerned and had very astute opinions. But if I had to guess, he likely didn’t engage much on hot button political issues like gun rights, government regulation in general (that doesn’t directly affect the Amish) or even abortion policy and the Supreme Court. Those are just not things that enter into daily life or conversation in a small rural Amish community.

[ohio jones]

1.64

I suspect we're all on a continuum somewhere.

I did make that sound a bit more precise than it actually is.

Allowing for some overlap, I can agree with some things in #1, pretty much all of #2, and very little in #3. So to find out where I end up between #1 and #2, I looked at the eleven semicolon-delimited statements in #1.

Some of them I reject:

• Sympathetic to patriotism and nationalism;
  Want robust immigration controls;

Some of them look somewhat ok on the surface, but are probably better stated in #2:

• High view of biblical authority;
  Traditional regarding marriage, lifestyle, divorce, sexuality, and gender roles within home & church;
  Personally non-resistant, but supportive of second amendment rights, and society's need for a strong police/military;
  Upholds individual responsibility & autonomy; (if I were writing #2 I'd include something about the body of Christ as a community)
  Strongly against abortion;

Some of them I agree with:

• Strong distrust of globalism, big government, and its social programs;
  Favors lower taxation and less regulation;
  Skeptical of the government’s pandemic agenda;
  Believes charity should come primarily from the individual and church, not state wealth redistribution.

So to arrive at a number, I started at #2 and moved 4/11 of the way toward #1.