submission to the church?

[Sudsy]

My thinking is there has to be a point when something that doesn't sit well with someone they need to draw the line but how do we know when the line is crossed?

Be guided by the Spirit. You will know when to leave if you ask the Holy Spirit to guide you. Face the fact that there are no perfect churches and that God is working in the lives of believers in various churches. Why do we make fellowship so difficult when God has not made it a divider in His Church ? Jesus has accepted us and given us the same Holy Spirit so why let churchianity tare us apart ? Sometimes threads like this sound to me like a competition as to who has the highest standards of holiness.

[Sudsy]

For me, I chose to separate over adultery or apparent adultery (married brother involved with a divorced sister).

Curious - since Jesus said adultery does not need be outward but can be a sin committed in the heart (lusting), where can you go that this is not happening.

[cmbl]

Curious - since Jesus said adultery does not need be outward but can be a sin committed in the heart (lusting), where can you go that this is not happening.

Uhm, there better be somewhere we can go. The evangelicals I know have ceded this field of battle to the enemy, plastering over it with platitudes like this one, but Jesus did say that He would build His church.

Do not be deceived. No person who is sexually immoral has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God.
Let every man who names the name of the Lord depart from iniquity.

[KingdomBuilder]

by split Sunday school I'm referring to how some churches keep their children with them for all the services both Sunday school and the sermon and split would have separate for Sunday school. The children would all have Sunday school teachers and women would go off to one area, men to another. Often there is a joint class for the adults as well. I've seen both versions and I personally don't have a problem with either way. I guess if I had to reword the question to be more focused,

What have you had/chose to submit to the church on that you have disagreed with?

How about split services? Nearly all churches I know of have a "traditional" and a "contemporary" service held at different times. This is relatively new here- maybe 5 years now since it all started to become popular. My church, thankfully, has but one, unified service.
This is a pretty big deal to me.

[Josh]

For me, I chose to separate over adultery or apparent adultery (married brother involved with a divorced sister).

Curious - since Jesus said adultery does not need be outward but can be a sin committed in the heart (lusting), where can you go that this is not happening.

That's like saying that I shouldn't bother to quit going to a church where someone is openly murdering people, just because some brothers might be harbouring hatred in their hearts towards another brother.

1 Corinthians 5 is very clear. Sexual immorality such as is disgraceful even amongst the Gentiles is not to be permitted in the church. I will not call someone a "brother" who is engaging in open adultery.

[Sudsy]

For me, I chose to separate over adultery or apparent adultery (married brother involved with a divorced sister).

Curious - since Jesus said adultery does not need be outward but can be a sin committed in the heart (lusting), where can you go that this is not happening.

That's like saying that I shouldn't bother to quit going to a church where someone is openly murdering people, just because some brothers might be harbouring hatred in their hearts towards another brother.

1 Corinthians 5 is very clear. Sexual immorality such as is disgraceful even amongst the Gentiles is not to be permitted in the church. I will not call someone a "brother" who is engaging in open adultery.

I agree open, unrepented adultery, such as described in 1 Cor 5 (a man sleeping with his stepmother) is not to be tolerated in the local fellowship. Thought I better clarify that.

I was just trying to point out that hidden, no physical involvment adultery is still adultery needing to be repented even though I didn't put this well.

Anyway, I suspect that those who believe that divorced and remarried couples are living in perpetual adultery, then these D&Rs should also be kicked out of the church or if not, grounds to leave a church, right ? A divorced and remarried couple could probably not even be official members of such a fellowship but if they are attending, shouldn't they actually kick them out ?

I'm curious as to whether dis-fellowship is handled different between official members and those who are not members that make this their church home.

[RZehr]

Anyway, I suspect that those who believe that divorced and remarried couples are living in perpetual adultery, then these D&Rs should also be kicked out of the church or if not, grounds to leave a church, right ? A divorced and remarried couple could probably not even be official members of such a fellowship but if they are attending, shouldn't they actually kick them out ?

I'm curious as to whether dis-fellowship is handled different between official members and those who are not members that make this their church home.

I suppose there are exceptions, but we would not encourage someone to attend who has no intention of ever joining. Visiting is different, and I'm not sure where the line is between the two. But I think if someone has been attending a year or two, that is plenty of time for them to decide to join or not.

[Sudsy]

Anyway, I suspect that those who believe that divorced and remarried couples are living in perpetual adultery, then these D&Rs should also be kicked out of the church or if not, grounds to leave a church, right ? A divorced and remarried couple could probably not even be official members of such a fellowship but if they are attending, shouldn't they actually kick them out ?

I'm curious as to whether dis-fellowship is handled different between official members and those who are not members that make this their church home.

I suppose there are exceptions, but we would not encourage someone to attend who has no intention of ever joining. Visiting is different, and I'm not sure where the line is between the two. But I think if someone has been attending a year or two, that is plenty of time for them to decide to join or not.

I guess the MB church I attend would be considered quite liberal by some here. There is no striving for former membership but an invitation is always open. Non-members are welcomed to participate in many areas if they consider this church to be their home church. There are a few areas of restriction for non-members (i.e. voting, elders). D&Rs are not an issue and we have on-going marriage courses taught. Taking communion is suggested you pass it by if you are not a Christ follower. I suppose we are closer to evangelicals like the Pentecostals in our city.

[RZehr]

The difference, I suppose, is that we feel church membership goes hand in hand with commitment, brotherhood and church.
I believe that one would find pretty much across the board, as churches become more individualistic, the importance of formal membership lessens, and variation in beliefs and practices become greater.

Why wouldn't one join a church? I can't think of a good reason not to, if it's good enough to regularly attend.

[Valerie]

The difference, I suppose, is that we feel church membership goes hand in hand with commitment, brotherhood and church.
I believe that one would find pretty much across the board, as churches become more individualistic, the importance of formal membership lessens, and variation in beliefs and practices become greater.

Why wouldn't one join a church? I can't think of a good reason not to, if it's good enough to regularly attend.

There are a lot of churches out there that do not even have 'formal' membership at all. The reason, I think, is because I am not sure you can find a Scripture that indicates a formal membership joining, classes, etc- it seems if you attended church, then you are a member, if you are a Christian. This is what I was accustomed to for a long time in churches I attended. Like so many things, if you can't find exact mention in Scripture about something like 'formal church classes for membership' than it was man made- I'm not saying that's right or wrong, just you asked the question why not 'join'- and I think some don't see it as necessarily Scriptural for formal joining.
However if a church does have formal membership, than purposefully avoiding it is perplexing.